To think it’s not going to be a case of heating or eating for many families

[LadyCatStark]

We can forget heating altogether! I know it’s a nice little rhyme but for many, many families it’s going to be a case of eating or putting just enough petrol in the car to get you to work to pay all these increased costs. Eating yourself, or feeding your kids (hopefully most people will choose their kids). Eating healthily or eating cheap rubbish.

I’ve just nipped to Aldi as I had a work appointment cancel in the area and spent £40 just on the few bits I needed, not even a proper shop. I could have cried that I’d driven even just the 15 minutes to my appointment and it was cancelled and every drop of fuel counts.

Is it expected that costs of electricity will return to pre covid prices or at least close?

I know gas is different due to the Russia issue.

@fucketyfuckwit doubtful. We're expecting another rise in October.

I'm not so sure the health of the nation is going to go up if people make changes bitemyarsenic.

With less driving and more walking then yes potentially, but food wise, the cheapest food is often poor quality and obesogenic. Especially when you factor in cooking costs and time. The outcome of people needing to squeeze their food spending may very well be an increase in purchases of Iceland chicken nuggets and the like. There's a correlation between poverty and obesity in the UK, and no reason to think that's going to go away if people have less money to spend on food.

[quote peboh]@fucketyfuckwit doubtful. We're expecting another rise in October. [/quote]
Sorry, I didn't mean short term, I meant in a year or 2?

I've never understood the 'heating or eating' thing. There's plenty you can do to keep warm but you can't not eat.

@fucketyfuckwit I would assume at some point they're likely to fall, however from everything I've read nobody is expecting it any time soon. So we could be looking at 5+ years before we see any drops in cost. Supply and demand is the market is huge right now, and we're siding the after affects of this and probably will for many years to come. I'm hopeful it won't be that long, but hope doesn't really get you anywhere these days.

@Dembones292

I've never understood the 'heating or eating' thing. There's plenty you can do to keep warm but you can't not eat.

I think it's because there are some people who need to keep warm and are limited in the ways they can do this other than by the use of heating, and while you can't not eat, most people can restrict the amount they eat and not die in the attempt. So it's missing some meals but obviously not all of them, for energy costs.

What’s Brexit got to do with the invasion of the Ukraine

Dear me, some people ARE a bit slow at connecting the dots!

Let's recap...

1. it was clearly explained during the referendum campaign of 2016 that Brexit would drive a wedge between the UK and it's closest geopolitical allies on the continent of Europe, thus upsetting the balance of power in that part of the world and increasing the risk of armed conflict in the future. Am fairly sure some of the more clued up commentators mentioned the recent annexation of Crimea (2014) and the danger posed by a more emboldened Russia (who was happily funding online propaganda troll farms, and cozying up with far right western politicians, during all major western election campaigns around that time period)
2. in response, leave supporters made jokes about WW3...
3. fast forward to present, and jokes about Brexit and WW3 seem to have vanished, replaced with complete denial that anyone might have ever suggested there could be a connection between Brexit and potential armed conflict in Europe

Embarrassing...

Thing is this has yet to bite really. People are starting to see it a little bit domestically but it’s the business effects that will mean the consumer feels it more. Eg my nursery fees have just gone up because they are paying staff more (no complaints there). Businesses are having to cope with increased fuel, demands from staff for higher wages, increase heating costs. All of those costs will have to be passed on to the consumer or businesses will fold. The energy bills for one of the sites at my husband’s company have gone from less than £10k to over £40k. The costs of shipping have massively gone up over the past few months. It won’t be long before before consumer costs have to rise massively.

I've never understood the 'heating or eating' thing. There's plenty you can do to keep warm but you can't not eat.

Am fairly sure this used to be more about old people on poor pension. Old people feel the cold badly and it can easily kill them in winter (cold turn into bronchitis turn into pneumonia). They don't have as much appetite, though. Can survive on a bowl of soup and a few crackers, if they don't move much around. So the balance of priorities is different.
They still need both in the long run, but the choice is less obvious.

Also, it applies to parents with young children. Babies and toddlers need a warm environment to thrive. The parents will try and keep the kids warm, and feed them too. But the parents may starve themselves for a while. Most healthy adult can do with a bit of deprivation (sleep, food), for a short period at least, because humans are very resilient and built to survive through famines. It still sucks, and makes you ill in the long run, obviously.

I'm fearful of what the future holds, 12 years ago I was in an absolute shit state financially, living in unaffordable privately rented accommodation, with inadequate heating and inadequate food. I remember being excited the week I had £10 to feed myself and DD.
I don't want to live through another winter like that again, bleaching the walls every few days to get rid of mould spores. I suppose the difference is the heating an adequately heat the house, but with a 54% increase, we physically won't be able to afford to put the heating on.
We're not even that poor, but over the past year, rising costs have meant I've gone from a situation where I could save, to where I have to be careful for there to be as much money as there is month.

Only option is to be mindful, cut back wherever we can.

@Ionlydomassiveones

And yet I heard an MP on radio 4 today saying he didn’t need his income as an mp but if say, a GP on £100k+ (“perhaps with a mortgage and children”) were to enter the House of Parliament they shouldn’t have to drop down to a measly £84k. As if the mere idea of existing in £84k was unthinkable. (I imagine because in his mind the basic standard would be a large mortgage somewhere expensive and his kids would need school fees etc etc)

I thought - if I found a fiver I’d think I’d won the bloody lottery. It made me so sad to think that there are MPs supposedly representing us who simply have no idea. The man sounded lovely but clearly a product of privilege and unintended snobbery. So depressing.

I suppose what he's saying is if people want more qualified people to be MPs ie someone with a medical background plus relevant skills which would be better than someone making important decisions about healthhcare with zero insight, they're unlikely to because of the pay drop. Now some could afford it, but likely those who also don't need the money ie more of the same- people from wealthy families who inherited property and not people who have worked their way up from a working class background.

@RobotValkyrie

What’s Brexit got to do with the invasion of the Ukraine

Dear me, some people ARE a bit slow at connecting the dots!

Let's recap...

1. it was clearly explained during the referendum campaign of 2016 that Brexit would drive a wedge between the UK and it's closest geopolitical allies on the continent of Europe, thus upsetting the balance of power in that part of the world and increasing the risk of armed conflict in the future. Am fairly sure some of the more clued up commentators mentioned the recent annexation of Crimea (2014) and the danger posed by a more emboldened Russia (who was happily funding online propaganda troll farms, and cozying up with far right western politicians, during all major western election campaigns around that time period)
2. in response, leave supporters made jokes about WW3...
3. fast forward to present, and jokes about Brexit and WW3 seem to have vanished, replaced with complete denial that anyone might have ever suggested there could be a connection between Brexit and potential armed conflict in Europe

Embarrassing...

Exactly.

It amazing how many people can't see the links between world events.

Not to mention the supposed interference of the Russians in the referendum process to weaken the EU and distance the UK. The same aggression we are seeing driving the war which impacted costs further.

Do I think some of this is outside of our government's control? Yes. But a lot of it isn't. We need to hold the right people accountable.

I don't want anyone to 'just accept' Brexit but I can't see the momentum for reversing any of it yet. Or our self serving government. I think people need to get poorer and more frustrated for a real revolution but it will be hard.

We will be able to absorb the costs, but if all the ‘basics’ get more expensive we will naturally spend less on the extras - which is where the economy will struggle when people aren’t going on days out / hairdressers / out for meals etc.

As an aside, can posters PLEASE stop saying ‘the Ukraine’. It’s Ukraine, no ‘the’. That’s what the Russians call it because they think they own it. Please call it Ukraine.

@RobotValkyrie

What’s Brexit got to do with the invasion of the Ukraine

Dear me, some people ARE a bit slow at connecting the dots!

Let's recap...

1. it was clearly explained during the referendum campaign of 2016 that Brexit would drive a wedge between the UK and it's closest geopolitical allies on the continent of Europe, thus upsetting the balance of power in that part of the world and increasing the risk of armed conflict in the future. Am fairly sure some of the more clued up commentators mentioned the recent annexation of Crimea (2014) and the danger posed by a more emboldened Russia (who was happily funding online propaganda troll farms, and cozying up with far right western politicians, during all major western election campaigns around that time period)
2. in response, leave supporters made jokes about WW3...
3. fast forward to present, and jokes about Brexit and WW3 seem to have vanished, replaced with complete denial that anyone might have ever suggested there could be a connection between Brexit and potential armed conflict in Europe

Embarrassing...

Nah behave, the brexit reaching is going to new lows.

@00100001

£40 on "bits" that you needed

What were these little bits??

If you did a fresh food top up shop (fruit, bread, milk etc) at the same time as buying toilet roll, washing powder/liquid, cleaning stuff etc then it's really not long before that shop would be £40, especially for larger families.

@HardyBuckette

I'm not so sure the health of the nation is going to go up if people make changes bitemyarsenic.

With less driving and more walking then yes potentially, but food wise, the cheapest food is often poor quality and obesogenic. Especially when you factor in cooking costs and time. The outcome of people needing to squeeze their food spending may very well be an increase in purchases of Iceland chicken nuggets and the like. There's a correlation between poverty and obesity in the UK, and no reason to think that's going to go away if people have less money to spend on food.

The health of the nation generally Yes its going to affect the poor far more, I put that in my PP. I think food banks will end up as community kitchens as it will be impossible to cook for many people due to costs. Endless threads on here about what people will be cutting shows there is wriggle room for many and also the showering twice a day/ wash towels after every use threads. There is a massive divide between the poor and well off and in that divide is massive WASTE.

@Peasock

So you don't think the UK is uniquely exposed to fuel increases and goods increases as a result of leaving the worlds largest trading block? When all the evidence is out there to explain that it is?

The hike is likely to be temporary and short lived if you follow commodity prices oil and natural gas are already falling.

If that is the case (and I’ve no idea, so I’ll take your word for it), I’m not holding my breath for that fall in prices to be passed on and reflected in people’s bills.

Someone I know has said they will be getting rid of their dogs because they couldn’t justify their kids having rubbish food in order to pay for pet care. That is a horrendous choice to have to make but I wonder how many others will see pets as a luxury they can no longer afford.

We’re doing the egg timer shower thing and no more baths, batch cooking then reheating in microwave, walking to work etc but it’s all just tinkering round the edges to make it seem like we are doing something - it will all get eaten up and more by food prices.

[quote Yorkshirelass04]@Peasock

So you don't think the UK is uniquely exposed to fuel increases and goods increases as a result of leaving the worlds largest trading block? When all the evidence is out there to explain that it is? [/quote]
I didn't say I didn't think that, just that I don't think it's to blame for the war in Ukraine. I made no other comment on brexit, although agree there are many many negatives, some posts on this forum the past few years have been ridiculous in assigning blame for certain things to it.

I was a student in the early 70s, living in a shared flat with one 2 bar electric fire that we couldn't afford to switch on, an immersion heater that we couldn't afford to switch on either, and a gas ring that required coins in the meter. We kept clean by washing with a single bucket of water and a bar of soap (standing in the bath) and 1 trip to the laundrette a week. We used to sit in the library as much as possible, walked everywhere and wore layers, adding blankets and hot water bottles when studying at home. I wouldn't like to go back to that, but I think I could if I had no choice.

Yes it going to be a rough few months but if you cut say 5% off VAT now you will also lose that money in 6 months time that could be better spent on educating our kids.

No point in pouring money in to education if kids are too hungry to learn, or have been made homeless, or are experiencing any other issue related to poverty.

And you are kidding yourself if you think this issue is so short term it will be over in months. The hike in fuel prices is not temporary, and there is to be another price rise in October, potentially another 50%. So by then people will be paying double for their home energy costs. Who knows what impact Ukraine will continue to have on gas prices.

I’m not given to doom mongering and can usually see a mor balanced picture but without government intervention, I can’t see how this will change in the next 12 months at least.

@TheCanyon

I'd rather be warm than eat. Unfortunately I live with 5 others that like fed. 13 years ago as a single parent I ate twice a week at most, can do it again I'm sure.

You ate twice a week? Really?

Remember the 3 (or was it 4) day week, the power cuts and the bread strike? There was bread available for the pensioners but nobody else. We were struggling then because we relied on bread as it didn't require cooking. We were all very slim though.