To think it’s not going to be a case of heating or eating for many families

[LadyCatStark]

We can forget heating altogether! I know it’s a nice little rhyme but for many, many families it’s going to be a case of eating or putting just enough petrol in the car to get you to work to pay all these increased costs. Eating yourself, or feeding your kids (hopefully most people will choose their kids). Eating healthily or eating cheap rubbish.

I’ve just nipped to Aldi as I had a work appointment cancel in the area and spent £40 just on the few bits I needed, not even a proper shop. I could have cried that I’d driven even just the 15 minutes to my appointment and it was cancelled and every drop of fuel counts.

@Frollop

When I'm cold I tend to wrap up indoors and put the electric blanket on if needed. A few of my friends have said they don't want to wear layers and dress up like they are outside. They want to wear less indoors, feel comfortable, put the heating on and be in a warm house so it sounds like they won't be making any changes. It's difficult as some people have no choice but to leave the heating off.

This is me, I like my surroundings to be warm, layering up is just not the same

@daisypond

I think people expect more now - and they assume it’s normal. On the “will you host a refugee” thread, I’m surprised by people saying they “only have one bathroom”. I think having one bathroom/loo is normal. Everyone I know only has one.

This is true. I don't know if I'm just a bit of a tightarse but a lot of the stuff on the "How are you cutting back?" threads is just normal to me. And I've got a very comfortable salary. There's just lots of things- tumble dryers, dishwashers, cleaner, leaving the heating on all the time, weekly shop at M&S- which I've never thought of as normal to have in the first place.

@LostFrog

Someone I know has said they will be getting rid of their dogs because they couldn’t justify their kids having rubbish food in order to pay for pet care. That is a horrendous choice to have to make but I wonder how many others will see pets as a luxury they can no longer afford.

We’re doing the egg timer shower thing and no more baths, batch cooking then reheating in microwave, walking to work etc but it’s all just tinkering round the edges to make it seem like we are doing something - it will all get eaten up and more by food prices.

It’s crossed my mind. I won’t, because even my kid would rather eat crappy food than rehome our beloved dogs! Well, I would if we couldn’t eat at all, because what else can you do, but it would have to come to that. Insurance and vets bills are crippling me at the moment.

We’re a bit insulated at the moment, because monthly council tax is over ten months, not twelve, so there’s spare funds. I’ve never noticed before, but I’ve never earned less than this year, even in my first full time job.

What I don’t understand is that my energy bill is £80 a month. The best fix I can get now is £240. That’s not 50%? Also, I’m with octopus. It’s supposedly all green energy. Why is it more expensive because of oil? Has Russia put out the sun?!

It’s not Ukraine. It was already going up.

I have to do a 50 mile round trip tomorrow for a hospital appointment for DS. I am dreading the cost of the extra fuel to do it, and even worse I know their is a high possibility the appointment will lead to at least two more there in the next few weeks. It would take over two and a half hours to get there by public transport so not driving isn’t an option.

It’s all very concerning at the moment.

What I don’t understand is that my energy bill is £80 a month. The best fix I can get now is £240. That’s not 50%? Also, I’m with octopus. It’s supposedly all green energy.

There aren’t really any fixed rate deals at the moment that are less than the cap that comes with the standard tariff sadly. At the moment in most cases the advise is not to fix and just pay at the cap.

My fix finished in January and I was paying £65 a month. Last month it cost me £100, I am expecting April to be up to about £130 (by cutting everything down as much as possible and not using heating)

The government will have to make some compromises. Fracking and North Sea Oil for starters. There is no money because it was tiddled up the wall on furlough and lock downs that time is likely to tell us we're unnecessary. I don't have a massive issue with Brexot but I do with the manner in which propaganda drawing from inaccurate and unproven science was peddled.

There is no money because it was tiddled up the wall on furlough and lock downs that time is likely to tell us we're unnecessary. I don't have a massive issue with Brexot but I do with the manner in which propaganda drawing from inaccurate and unproven science was peddled.

The irony

I'm quite happy to layer up - I have a heated throw, an Aldi knock-off Oodie, I wear fleece lined leggings, etc. DH likes to wander around the house in shorts and a t-shirt with the heating on. It's starting to annoy me, to be honest; a couple of nights ago he was sat on the sofa in his boxers and he went to turn the heating up, rather than go and put a pair of joggers on. Any time I flick a switch or turn the shower on, £ signs start racking up in my mind

Before we moved to this house, we lived in a shitty rented flat with ancient windows, expensive electric storage heaters and a broken immersion heater. The landlord was a shyster and for the last couple of months before we moved out, we had to boil the kettle to fill the bath or do dishes because there was zero hot water. I ended up using the showers at my work, which were supposed to be for people who cycled to the office. What I'm getting at is, I understand why DH now wants to enjoy being comfortable in our own home but there needs to be a middle ground.

I think I am like Gynaesaur - some of the threads on cutting back have made me realise that as my son says - you are a tightarse!

Don't have a cleaner, use cashback websites bigstyle, bulk buy as much as you can in a small terraced house, eat well past sell by dates - bar chicken, take a packed lunch, no pre cooked meals,don't leave the heating on all day, will put a jumper on before I put the heating on, old care, rarely buy new clothes etc etc

Not got to the basics food brands in everything but do use them for staples - rice is rice at the end of the day.

Will not change habits of lifetime and can definitely be more economical without suffering unduly - sad for those who really will struggle.

@Yorkshirelass04

This is an entirely foreseeable consequence of Brexit.

People got what they voted for and so have to accept what comes with that.

Goodness Remainers are tedious. I voted Remain but this is embarrassing.

Advice please? I've been sticking my head in the sand about this but this morning sat down to face things head on.

My dual tariff is fixed until end of July. Just updated meter readings to get a quote for new tariff starting August with the new prices effective from 1st April.

I currently pay £96 per month with Eon.

Best new quote is £186 per month on a variable rate (so this means it could rocket to God know what in October?).

Or, I could go for another 12 month fixed tariff at £254 per month. Am I best switching to this one as October might bring higher bills on the variable rate?

But at least we're all in it together.

Three factors-
Brexit
Covid
Ukraine war

One of those we actually voted for ffs!

But at least we're all in it together
Yes, Johnson can always eat his £1,000 a roll wallpaper.

I am a little concerned about fuel prices. I can get away without heating, that's absolutely fine, but I need my car to get to where I need to go. Me and DP are thinking of selling his car which should help, but it is a worry.

I know it's nothing like the worry the people of Ukraine are living with. But all the same. It is worrying.

@BoredZelda

but very few people on here were bothered about the people who had to choose between heating and eating as a result of lockdown

You have a short memory. There was plenty written about that on MN. One might argue that those who were impacted by lockdown hadn’t previously “bothered” that there were people in that position prior to covid.

To suggest people weren’t “bothered” is laughable.

Oil peaked at $124 on 8/3/22 and fell to $104 by 11/3/22, this compares to $80 at the start of the year or $75 back in September. This is largely being kept up by OPEC who don't want to boost supplies, whether the USA government can compel them to which might drive down the price is to be seen.

Whatever you think is the reason, it is foolish to think we’ve seen a peak.

Yes, I am probably guilty of not having "bothered" about it, other than in an abstract way, pre-lockdowns.

I had hoped MN would be a source of support during lockdown, but the majority of threads were dominated by the happily furloughed who were happy to tell us how they were saving oodles of money by not commuting or going out. I would say those people can use their extensive savings to pay their increased heating and eating bills, but I rather suspect those same people are still absolutely fine, thanks.

Aren't oil and gas companies all making record profits at the moment as well?

A friend of mine already only eats 3 meals a week in winter to afford the heating for her daughters medical conditions. She's in the smallest home she can legally get away with but is considering downsizing. Her Ex has just lost his job so she's already down £100 a month without increased consts.

Childcare in our area they have to be on the list before they're even concieved to have a hope of getting a place. The wraparounds are full, the childminders are full, the nurseries are full, so parents without childcare can't increase hours to absorb the increase unless they have family help (friend doesn't so will be much worse off).

I just don't see how she's going to manage, her DD gets DLA but that doesn't even come close.

@Kendodd yes though I don't understand enough to understand what proportion is from UK operations, what from extraction and consumer if vertically integrated, what losses were made from the price collapse during COVID and the destination of the profits (UK pension funds?) to know whether a windfall tax would be beneficial.

UK has a different sector to France but didn't they have a state-owned energy entity take the hit?

Personally, I think that Brexit, the war, the pandemic, rising fuel costs etc are all symptoms of something else - limits to growth.

In the 70s a group of researchers created a computer model forecasting what would happen if we continued to consume the earths resources as we were, and also what would happen if we made changes to our consumption habits. They produced a number of scenarios which predicted the state of the world up to the year 2100, depending on the actions taken. In 2014 Australian researchers revisited the scenarios, and found that the world was tracking fairly closely to the "business as usual" scenario.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/02/limits-to-growth-was-right-new-research-shows-were-nearing-collapse

If you look at the graph you can see it predicts a big drop in industrial output right around 2020 and a drop in food production.

I don’t understand how voting remain would have stopped Putin from invading Ukraine.

@KimikosNightmare

What's embarrassing is people thinking that increases to fuel prices and cost of living is to do with a war that started 18 days ago.

Can you read the full thread and supporting arguments before calling anyone embarrassing or tedious please.

@LookingGlassMilk

Personally, I think that Brexit, the war, the pandemic, rising fuel costs etc are all symptoms of something else - limits to growth.

In the 70s a group of researchers created a computer model forecasting what would happen if we continued to consume the earths resources as we were, and also what would happen if we made changes to our consumption habits. They produced a number of scenarios which predicted the state of the world up to the year 2100, depending on the actions taken. In 2014 Australian researchers revisited the scenarios, and found that the world was tracking fairly closely to the "business as usual" scenario.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/02/limits-to-growth-was-right-new-research-shows-were-nearing-collapse

If you look at the graph you can see it predicts a big drop in industrial output right around 2020 and a drop in food production.

Very interesting article, thanks.

We should have been investing in nuclear power years ago.

If I remember rightly, an option to build more nuclear stations was vetoed during the Blair years. If they'd been built, they'd be online by now, and we wouldn't be quite so hostage to fuel from other countries.

Ultimately, green fuel is a necessity, but nuclear is a step along the way of ditching fossil fuels.

@EasterIssland

My Spanish friends are seeing high petrol prices , expensive energy bills and so with gas. Food has increased as well and there is currently lack of food because of panic buying.

They must have had their own brexit for going through the same economical problems as us!

I live in Portugal and its the same here. Massive increase in petrol and diesel, food prices have risen, our electricity has gone up and unfortunately the salaries are still absolutely piss poor.