To despair at our obession with cars

[SelkieQualia]

They are awful. Noisy. Polluting. 4 million people die every year from the effects of air pollution. Housing developments are built around them, which means that the most vulnerable people in our society - young people, the elderly - are made even more dependant on those who drive.
Why do we tolerate such terrible public transport and cycling infrastructure?

@ivykaty44

What about shopping? Getting it delivered means a big refrigerated van driving around all day.

Would 25 extra cars with one person in them be better?

Would you rather 50 solo occupied cars or one bus driving round each day?

The thing is that 50 solo occupied cars are only on the road for a tiny proportion of the day, maybe an hour or so in most cases. The bus is on the road 12-18 hours, many of those hours being with few, if any people on board. So it's not as clear as you make out. The bus may well be worse for the environment than those 50 cars on a "per person carried" basis when you factor in the fuel/pollution of a bus for 12-18 hours continual use and only being remotely full for an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon.

@Momicrone

Topcat2014, not everyone, there are plenty of people who don't own a car and yet manage to lead a normal work and social life

Often relying on friends/family giving them lifts or using taxis!

There'll be very few people who, literally, never set foot in a "car" of some kind.

I walk short distances - it's 1.5 miles to walk into my local town with good pavements although there are reasonably regular buses up til 7pm.
To visit my Mum in her care home it takes 15mins by car & around 2hrs by public transport.
Seeing my Dad wouldn't be possible on public transport!
The best public transport in my town is the railway service to London which is fantastic. 25mins to Waterloo & as an occasional thing not too expensive as am always off peak - commuter prices are extortionate.

Everyone's said it already but:

1. Public transport is widely awful and unreliable (and expensive - but I'll come to that).

1. Convenience: would I rather be in my own space, with my own music, my own temperature control, my own choice when to travel, be able to get directly to the destination... or would I rather have to travel to a schedule, surrounded by other people and their noise/germs/children, have no control over the temperature, arrive near but probably not directly outside my venue, have to potentially change transport method halfway through my journey?

Fundamentally, lots of people will choose comfort over better for the environment.

(Yes, there are benefits of public transport over driving: not having to be in control/alert, etc. But largely I think driving provides better comfort and convenience)

1. Cost: owning a car is undeniably expensive, especially as fuel prices go up. But with public transport, you pay for your journeys as needed and you have no 'extra' benefits other than your commute - with a car, you have that available to you at all times, for whatever you want, plus you can you use it for more than commuting, all within that cost. If I have a rail pass, I can't use it to rush over to my friend at 1am when she's really ill and needs someone to watch her baby. I can't use it to go and pick up a chest of drawers off Facebook marketplace. I can't use it to rush my cat to the vets. And so on. So you get much more for your money.

Plus, depending on how long your commute is/how wide your transport needs are, public transport is just as expensive.

A monthly rail pass for my commute would be £358.00 and I could only use it for that route. I own my car outright so spend £40 a month on insurance, there's no tax, and about £150 on fuel - a LOT less. Even if I were paying for my car monthly it'd still come out as less than that - with all of the extra convenience, usefulness and freedom that having a car brings without being tied to one specific route.

I don't love that I am reliant on my car, and we're moving closer to my work soon partly to cut my commute down as 50 miles is a bit much. But until there's really good public transport options with competitive pricing, I don't see how it makes sense financially for me to switch and if it doesn't make sense financially then I'll opt for the quicker, calmer, other-people-free option every time.

Captain, of course, but I was only going on the info given, there are many reasons why people live where they do, but the poster expressed a desire for better amenities.

A lot of young people graduate with huge amounts of debt, so will rent where it is easiest to walk/cycle to a job. Not everyone will have had the opportunity to learn to drive.

We were the same (as are a high proportion of our friends). People have no option but to live where their work is, if you've never experienced not owning a car you won't understand.

It is possible, it just depends on your attitude. We chose a school within walking distance and things like swimming lessons where we can walk to with DD, the idea of driving to activities is absurd for us.

User149, not if you cycle and use public transport and what if you have no friends or family with a car?

YABU with your 4m die a year from air pollution

In the uk it’s 28k to 32k and air pollution isn’t just cars

All those log burners people are turning to will pollute the air, as does a myriad of other stuff.

Why bang on about cars which are a lifeline to many people

I don’t want to catch a bus or tram or circle to work I want to be able to leave when I want to and get home, not have my life dictated by a timetable in the cases of buses, trams and trains, not do I want to cycle on dark roads

So I am carrying on driving, don’t like it? Tough

User149, alot of supermarkets use electric vans

Can’t say I’d feel safe on a bike. Someone could push you off and attack you.

I don't know if this meant to be a joke, but in case it isn't - omg!I've never had this happened to me or anyone I know of, and I know dozens of people who cycle. I've seen plenty of car accidents on the road though. Anecdotal evidence I know, but this is such a hilarious comment!

Agrudge, how wrong you are, plenty of people use bikes and public transport without relying on friends and family with cars

to add, I've always cycled home after a night out, feel safer than walking or getting a taxi. I don't mess around with buses - haven't been on a bus for years, if you can cycle you don't need to get on a bus, you can cover the same distance easier and probably quicker.

User149, using a taxi is like car sharing, can't see a problem with it

I feel safe on my bike, dodgy men or no dodgy men, I just cycle away from them any how

Love my car
And I just don't have time to travel by public transport and work full time and bring up my family and support my parents

Easier to suggest if you live in a town but we’ve lived here for 41 years & have never had a bus service. Nearest town is over 20 miles away & nearest shop over 5 miles.

@Momicrone

User149, using a taxi is like car sharing, can't see a problem with it

It's only car sharing if you're sharing it with others from different households, so it's one car journey instead of 2 or 3 different cars.

If you're on your own or with your OH or children, then it's just like a car.

In fact it could be worse than using your own car as there's an extra "dead" journey of the taxi coming to pick you up and then again once it's dropped you off to go back to it's base/rank.

I just think it's a really flippant response to a complicated problem, momicrone.

The idea of being pushed off a bike by a roving villain wonderfully comic though!

User149, I meant car sharing like those car sharing schemes, it's not just sitting there taking up space on the side of the road, many different people use it

User149, it's not worse than using your own car if you don't own one

@Momicrone

Shaving, b and q deliver though

True, but some low value products (such as an 8ft length of 2by4 which I bought last week for house renovations) would cost more to deliver than to buy - I learnt that to my cost when I ordered a replacement fence panel and the delivery doubled the price. Kind of sticks in the throat a bit. But I cycle and walk as much as I can (although walking the 1.5 miles back from B&Q with two paint cans left me with arms like an orangutan!).

I do feel very safe cycling, and cycling and walking will always be my first option. I've never been pushed off, never been knocked off, and in the ten years since I've cycled to work I've ridden maybe 20,000 miles with only a few close shaves on the roads. It's kept me fit, it's saved me thousands of pounds, and it's opened up my life to new holidays, new friends, and new experiences. Bit cheesy, but it's true.

Captain- as flippant as the posters who drive for the sake of it?

@SelkieQualia Try living in a suburb or village and describe to us how to get 4 people to 4 different destinations between 7.45 and 9.00 Monday to Friday.
That is two schools, and two places of work. You can do it with the UK "buschecker" app in the comfort of your own home.

When you have done that add in occasional trips to Dr or visit to Parents or dog to vet.
WWYD

We are using "buschecker" because we are testing different towns/suburbs to move house. Giving up the village because we want to drive less. We are looking ahead and preparing for old age.

@Momicrone

Captain- as flippant as the posters who drive for the sake of it?

As flippant as suggesting that the posters on this thread who drive because of a lack of infrastructure, safe cycle routes or because of disability are "driving for the sake of it", certainly

@ivykaty44

I live in a suburban housing estate where all of those amenities are at least two miles away.

Who allowed the housing estate to be built without the needed facilities?

Over 3000 houses are planned (and in course of construction) for our small town without a single extra shop, surgery, school, anything. No road improvements and no cycle or pedestrian improvements - the "planning" system is a sick joke.