To despair at our obession with cars

[SelkieQualia]

They are awful. Noisy. Polluting. 4 million people die every year from the effects of air pollution. Housing developments are built around them, which means that the most vulnerable people in our society - young people, the elderly - are made even more dependant on those who drive.
Why do we tolerate such terrible public transport and cycling infrastructure?

For many of us they’re a hobby not just a form of transport

@ Bramshott - this is c what I meant about cycling infrastructure- when there is a good cycle route, short trips can be faster by bike than by car, because there's no stuffing around parking, and you attention held up by traffic.

I love cars and I drive because I'm rural and need to shift stuff around that can't be taken on public transport, but I'm always staggered by how badly planned the local towns and cities are for access. No cycle routes and poor walking access, even on new developments and major routes into town. Public transport out here is erratic at best.

Step over the county border and it's a different world in the next town, with excellent cycle and foot paths from new developments into town, and intersecting the centre. Some areas seem to be run suffering from abominable planning departments.

@SnackSizeRaisin

Totally agree with you OP. Quality of life would be so much better without cars in towns. It's a big mental hurdle to imagine it for most people. Electric cars are not the answer as they are expensive, just as bad for the environment and just as dangerous. Electric bikes are where the future lies in my opinion. Ideal for lazy people. Just need to get the government to subsidise them

You're missing the point that electric bikes aren't suitable for lots of people - disabled, the elderly, people who need to transport stuff for work, people with kids...

Out of interest I looked up how to get DDs to their swimming lessons by various means.

Driving... 13mins
Cycling... 30mins
Bus... 63mins
Walking... 90mins.

Cycling will involve them cycling on NSL roads
Walking... similar as no pavements!
Bus... into town centre and out again
Or car... quick and safe.

The issue with public transport is it doesn't go where you want it to go.
UK roads are not safe for cyclists especially children.

So... its car.

If public transport were reliable, convenient and cost-effective then more people would use it. I tried getting the train to work for a bit. I had a change along the way. The first week, it was late 4 days out of 5, meaning that I got to my desk more than 30 minutes after my start time because I missed my connection. It also cost me more than the fuel my car would have used (at the time). An 80 % failure rate is not acceptable.

Now, if I go into town there is a very convenient bus route. However, if there is more than 1 person going then it is cheaper to drive in and pay for parking as long as you are there for less than 6 hours. Not to mention that the bus takes up to 35 minutes to get into town once I am on it (never mind getting to the stop early, waiting for the return bus etc, and half the time it doesn't turn up) and it taks a maximum of 15 minutes to drive. And this is a large town in the South East.

I grew up in Cornwall. There was one bus a day. It arrived in the nearest town at about 9.30, and returned at 13.00. Hardly suitable for commuting to work. If you needed to go to a different town, that bus was once a week. On a Saturday.

My mum still lives there and had to go for a "fit to work" assessment. She submitted her mileage and was told she could only claim public transport. She would have had to get the 9.30 bus, change along the way to another bus that only ran once a day but had already left by the time first bus got there. So overnight hotel needed (approx 4 miles from home). Get the bus the following day, go to appointment (luckily it was in the afternoon, otherwise another overnight stay required, now approx 15 miles from home). And then repeat for the return journey. They paid for the petrol.

The people who stipulate public transport for this kind of thing seem to have no comprehension that there isn't a bus every 5 minutes in every place in the UK. And actually, the buses where my Mum lives don't run any more at all - they were so unreliable (eg return bus wouldn't turn up, stranding everyone until the next day) no-one used them. So it was determined that the service wasn't required. Madness.

We simply don't have the infrastructure.

I’ve rurally, there a couple buses a day that come through the village so it’s almost impossible not to have a car. My biggest spend is on fuel despite having a hybrid, I would be totally stuck without a car, if I lived in a city then yes, I could manage without a car.

@byvirtue

Presumably you live in a city with public transport? 17% of the English population live rurally and are dependent on their vehicles to access health, education and work.

I live somewhere with lousy public transport, which is why I'm complaining. I work only a short distance from home, but getting home can take for ever due to the traffic. I bike sometimes, but it's dangerous because of the bad bike lanes.

Oh - and the nearest train station is a 40 minute drive away, not on a bus route.

Well it’s just time isn’t it, as in, no one has any time. I certainly can’t add an extra hour on to my journey just to walk/cycle/bus to the train station, when I can get to my final destination in the car on half the time.

@weirdlykind actually, bikes can be suitable for all those groups - if you are on the right bike, and are not riding with cars.

I’ve always used public transport and walked before having my disabled DD.. she can’t walk at all. I know what my preference would be but in terms of time, cost and making appointments in London (I live about 70 miles away) I don’t always have a choice.

Dont try and take cars away from those that had the ability to pass a test.

If they made private e-scooters legal I would be more than happy to use that to get to work. Until then ill drive the mile in one of my comfy diesel cars

@Blue4YOU

I’ve always used public transport and walked before having my disabled DD.. she can’t walk at all. I know what my preference would be but in terms of time, cost and making appointments in London (I live about 70 miles away) I don’t always have a choice.

If the majority of trips that could be done by bike or pt were, then there would be a lot less traffic and better parking for those people who really need to go by car.

In theory, I agree.
But, so much stuff has to change in order to change society's view. .

Buses need to be more accessible, go more places, run more regularly and be safer. Same for trains, trams and metros.

Bikes are great but more places need secure bike storage, shower facilities, safer bike routes etc.

Electric cars, again, great idea. But it's not very easy to make the change, get secure, off-road car charging ports, charging ports in town centres and supermarkets etc.
Basically anyone who lives in a house without off street parking can't have a charging port as theyd need to run cables across pathways and roads, or rely on parking elsewhere and having to then walk a canny distance or rely on yet more public transport. So suddenly a short journey is now an excessively long, complicated and expensive one.

Iregulularregular, so buying and running a car is cheaper!? I travel with kids on the trains alot with a family rail card.

I'm afraid it would be too challenging to manage without a car at all - I'm not quite ready for that. We live in a village. Then once you have the car it is certainly much cheaper to use the car for most trips with more than one person. And that frustrates me because I would like to use the train for more journeys, but the pricing is wrong.

I do use the train a lot. And also walk and cycle. I probably only use the car once or twice a week on average. I take the train to work (despite the fact it would be quicker and cheaper to drive) and usually use the train for trips to the nearest city. But there are times for longer trips for multiple people, like the trip I mentioned, when I baulk at the cost. And that is a shame.

Our next car - soon - will be electric!

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea

In theory, I agree. But, so much stuff has to change in order to change society's view. .

Buses need to be more accessible, go more places, run more regularly and be safer. Same for trains, trams and metros.

Bikes are great but more places need secure bike storage, shower facilities, safer bike routes etc.

Electric cars, again, great idea. But it's not very easy to make the change, get secure, off-road car charging ports, charging ports in town centres and supermarkets etc.
Basically anyone who lives in a house without off street parking can't have a charging port as theyd need to run cables across pathways and roads, or rely on parking elsewhere and having to then walk a canny distance or rely on yet more public transport. So suddenly a short journey is now an excessively long, complicated and expensive one.

But I don't understand why people accept the status quo? Why are we not having intelligent discussions about this at election time (... actually, don't answer that... )

We live too rurally for there to be any public transport. Walking to work would take an hour at least, if I cycled you might not see me alive for long (poor country lane with far too many cars, a busy main road to cross in the rush hour).

@SleeplessInEngland

On the plus side, the uptake of electric cars has surpassed all expectations and they're much quieter and cleaner.

Yes until they put the electric up I wonder if people will think twice now

[quote SelkieQualia]@weirdlykind actually, bikes can be suitable for all those groups - if you are on the right bike, and are not riding with cars.[/quote]
I would like to know what bike would be suitable for a 12 year old on a feeding pump with other medical things to carry. Oh and who has severe asthma and only half a lung working (the tip of the iceberg)

Oh and with a mum who is a single mum who is healthy other than a messed up knee which hates the cycling action!

With the best will in the world cycling isn’t going to be an option for many.

Time is clearly an issue for walking and cycling, but I see lots of people where I live who drive half a mile when they could walk that in about 10 minutes. Sometime it's a mindset rather than a time issue.

[quote SelkieQualia]@weirdlykind actually, bikes can be suitable for all those groups - if you are on the right bike, and are not riding with cars.[/quote]
I have been unable to find one suitable for me (I use crutches and need a lot of stuff for work)

My sister has four kids - show me one that will work for her?

As much as you'd like them to be, they're not a practical solution for everyone. I'm also not sure how I'd get to work on one as a portion of the journey is on the motorway!

@Ariela

We live too rurally for there to be any public transport. Walking to work would take an hour at least, if I cycled you might not see me alive for long (poor country lane with far too many cars, a busy main road to cross in the rush hour).

But that's exactly what I'm annoyed at - cycling is just not an option. You don't even have a choice, because you and everyone else just assume that the road is for cars and cars only.

Time and money is the reason I'm sticking with my car.

I'm one of my parents unpaid carers and I have to drive 45 miles each way to help them once/twice a week.

In the car the return journey for up to 5 of us (sometimes my children and husband come along and spend the day helping too) costs no more than £10 and takes 2 hours.

On public transport, door to door. It would take 5 hours to get there and back and cost £25 per person.

That's not remotely feasible or practical.

From a transport perspective, there's not enough benefit in creating better public transport links from here to my parents. The infrastructure works for the people who use it. Random one off journey's don't justify the environmental and financial impact of trying to create new train lines or running virtually empty buses across a bespoke route that few would use.

Who's going to pay for all these new public transport options when most public transport companies are struggling to run the services they already have? If they're not economical or reliable people won't use them, but making them economical and reliable takes substantial investment.

I'm sorry, but until we have no option - cars are here to stay because the alternatives just aren't workable for many people.