To despair at our obession with cars

[SelkieQualia]

They are awful. Noisy. Polluting. 4 million people die every year from the effects of air pollution. Housing developments are built around them, which means that the most vulnerable people in our society - young people, the elderly - are made even more dependant on those who drive.
Why do we tolerate such terrible public transport and cycling infrastructure?

Butitsnotfunny - London has so many restrictions for car drivers now, be it congestion charge, ULEZ, low traffic neighbour hoods, not sure I'd feel 'free' driving a car under those circumstances. Places like London are trying to discourage driving and private car ownership.

@Momicrone

Butitsnotfunny - London has so many restrictions for car drivers now, be it congestion charge, ULEZ, low traffic neighbour hoods, not sure I'd feel 'free' driving a car under those circumstances. Places like London are trying to discourage driving and private car ownership.

Yes, indeed, but "places like london" have a far superior public transport infrastructure in place so there's less (if any) need for a car.

It's chicken and egg situation. You really can't start forcing people out of their cars when there isn't an alternative public transport system in place.

@Momicrone

Butitsnotfunny - London has so many restrictions for car drivers now, be it congestion charge, ULEZ, low traffic neighbour hoods, not sure I'd feel 'free' driving a car under those circumstances. Places like London are trying to discourage driving and private car ownership.

True. But then trying to discourage it doesn't mean it'll happen. I wouldn't be giving up my car. I go many places outside of London that I also use my car for, I'm not waiting for a train every half hour or hour in those places, not a chance.

Badbsdbunny - that comment was to a poster who lives in london with a car, which is why I was talking about london, where there is indeed less need for a car

Make that road one way and park cars diagonally from one side only - that only takes 2 "lanes" so you now have 2 lanes of space to play with.

if a car width is 4foot and 8ft long, how is pointing the cars at a 45 degree angle going to reduce the lanes from 2 parked lanes to one parked lane?

you'll still have two lanes taken and one for the cars on a one way street, making a street one way will also have an effect on all traffic flow, how will that effect other nearby streets?

@RomeoOscarXrayIndigoEcho

One way streets cause more congestion. Most cars will have to travel further to get where they want to go, ergo, more cars on the road at any one time, which leads to congestion.

In my town, you have to drive all the way around the town centre to get from the Sainsburys to the hospital, which are literally next to each other, but the hospital comes first on the one way system. Multiply that with all the other journeys (there are lots of similar journeys with other businesses, homes, etc etc) and it's no surprise the one way system is usually heavily congested, mostly with cars that actually don't want (and shouldn't need) to be on the one way streets.

Badbunny, it's the sheer volume of cars causing congestion

@Momicrone

Badbunny, it's the sheer volume of cars causing congestion

Yes, but making things harder for motorists, i.e. traffic calming, one way systems, etc., just causes more congestion if there aren't realistic alternatives. Put the alternatives in place first so that the drivers who are able & willing to use alternatives can do so.

Making things more difficult for drivers encourages people out of their cars

@Momicrone

Making things more difficult for drivers encourages people out of their cars

Only if there are viable alternatives. Do you really think people enjoy being sat stuck in traffic jams?

Do you really think people enjoy being sat stuck in traffic jams?

my old neighbour used to drive the just over 1 mile journey to work every day, its a 20 minute walk and id get there before her - so I guess yes she wanted to sit in traffic? it was the same going home, congestion and traffic crawling along at 3mph

@ivykaty44

Do you really think people enjoy being sat stuck in traffic jams?

my old neighbour used to drive the just over 1 mile journey to work every day, its a 20 minute walk and id get there before her - so I guess yes she wanted to sit in traffic? it was the same going home, congestion and traffic crawling along at 3mph

Anecdote isn't evidence.

@Momicrone

Making things more difficult for drivers encourages people out of their cars

That has been a strategy where I live for years. But public transit is inadequate to say the least, and biking is only fine for healthy, fit young people. Our city is very up and down hilly. We are constantly told about Amsterdam, but it is flat.

The result of all the "traffic calming"?

Increasing congestion and endless lines of idling cars. Just the perfect way to reduce emissions.

Hmm, I agree that you need really good alternatives if you are going to discourage cars.

However, I think people are really overly negative about bikes. I accept that there are going to be people and situations for whom they are just practical or possible. However, mumsnet seems to think that if you are not a MAML, a bike is not for you. That's not true. Hills and bikes are fine, especially if you have an e bike! Yes, you can carry kids and shopping on an e bike! Yes, they are expensive, but they have gotten much cheaper over the past few years, and if owning one means that you don't have to buy and run a second (or third) car, they can save you a ridiculous amount of money.

This is why there are no serious conversations about it because people suggesting it don't engage with the issues. Lots of rural roads aren't suitable for bikes. There isn't the space for cycle lanes. Not everyone can cycle because of health conditions or time commitments. And only someone with a very small family and no experience of taking teens to school and clubs could seriously recommend everyone cycling trying to balance all their bags on their bikes.
Cycling obviously isn't the answer. Our demographics are not the same as the countries where cycling is more popular. Any answers for here need to be focused on public transport. And include an acceptance that for a high proportion of the population private cars are the only solution to their transport needs.

If they were serious about trying to avoid car use they'd start with town planning and avoid out of town shopping centers and office parks.

That also means not going wild with city centre business rates. Which encourages companies to move out to the cheap low rates and rent business parks.

@AnnesBrokenSlate

This is why there are no serious conversations about it because people suggesting it don't engage with the issues. Lots of rural roads aren't suitable for bikes. There isn't the space for cycle lanes. Not everyone can cycle because of health conditions or time commitments. And only someone with a very small family and no experience of taking teens to school and clubs could seriously recommend everyone cycling trying to balance all their bags on their bikes. Cycling obviously isn't the answer. Our demographics are not the same as the countries where cycling is more popular. Any answers for here need to be focused on public transport. And include an acceptance that for a high proportion of the population private cars are the only solution to their transport needs.

Cycling may not be the answer WHERE YOU are. And yes, it's likely that for people in rural regions cars are always going to be way more important.

I lived places before where cycling was the answer. It was lovely. And the demographics not different to where I am now.

As for the teenagers.. imagine if they could get themselves to some of those clubs on a bike!

Secure cycle storage at destinations is also a big issue. There aren't many secure places, i.e. lockers. Yes, lots of half hearted barrier type structures around where you can lock your bike to, but they're not secure and bikes can very easily be stolen or damaged.

Heading to a specific destination with the kids by train: £260

Driving our car (old and anything but fuel efficient): £30. Saving a whopping £230!)

Going by train: have to walk to station with bags, can only go on the train's schedule, need to faff buying tickets and having everything ready and we can't be late. May also be seated next to a total stranger who stinks, is listening to loud music, or is having a loud phone conversation etc. Have to use further transport methods or walk with bags from station to destination.

Going by car: only have to walk outside of front door, can leave whenever it suits us, no extra prep other than checking the car's oil, water and fuel and can be late leaving. No smelly or loud strangers sat next to us. Can drive straight to destination door/parking.

Nope. Can't think why I prefer cars.

Cycling obviously isn't the answer. Our demographics are not the same as the countries where cycling is more popular

How are our demographics not the same as eg Denmark or the Netherlands? They are very similar. All we need is some decent investment.

@HowIsThisRight

Nope. Can't think why I prefer cars.

Similar here with what used to be my daily commute. Only 20 miles away but in a different town across the county border. By car it's 25 minutes door to door. By bus it's 1.5 hours and by train it's 2 hours, both due to multiple connections as there's no direct buses nor trains and different bus/train providers. It's complete lunacy not to take the car when the public transport takes so long and is so inconvenient, not to mention, a lot more expensive.

Here's another view on car ownership.

Nearly a million ppl are directly employed in the motor trade in the UK and the treasury receives over £40billion in tax revenues, annually.

@Satsumaeater

Cycling obviously isn't the answer. Our demographics are not the same as the countries where cycling is more popular

How are our demographics not the same as eg Denmark or the Netherlands? They are very similar. All we need is some decent investment.

Our geography is very different.

@Satsumaeater

Cycling obviously isn't the answer. Our demographics are not the same as the countries where cycling is more popular

How are our demographics not the same as eg Denmark or the Netherlands? They are very similar. All we need is some decent investment.

Demographically. The population of Holland is 17m and Denmark is a tad over 5m. Also the UK is 6 times bigger than either Holland or Denmark.

Demographically the UK and the Netherlands are quite similar.

Geographically they are different. But nowadays with electric bikes a lot of obstacles like hills can be overcome. It's just political will