To despair at our obession with cars

[SelkieQualia]

They are awful. Noisy. Polluting. 4 million people die every year from the effects of air pollution. Housing developments are built around them, which means that the most vulnerable people in our society - young people, the elderly - are made even more dependant on those who drive.
Why do we tolerate such terrible public transport and cycling infrastructure?

feels" safe because it's got a footpath

Drivers kill around 40 pedestrians on the footpath every year

It’s drivers behaviour that makes spaces dangerous and the sooner we talk about dangerous drivers instead of dangerous roads, the sooner we tackle the problem and prevent deaths

WhatIsThisPlease How will you feel if the cost of fuel increases to more than the cost of the inadequate public transport? Why do you tolerate bad public transport?

@DinosApple

We live rurally, but cut down to one car about 2 years ago. It's annoying about 3% of the time, so not enough to justify the added expense.

Public transport has been cut down a lot, but there's a school (public) bus to our catchment secondary over 4 miles away, which we have to pay for. DH and I are low earners and £4 per day has a real impact on our wages, so we lift share instead.
If either of us want to earn more money (definitely before next winter so we can have the heating on!) we will need another car.

There are places where that school bus is free - which I think it should be.

@ivykaty44

I've been involved in lobbying over a stretch of road that gets driven far to fast. Council don't see the need for traffic calming. The locals can see that it's a matter of time before another person is killed.

Do you really believe it’s the councillors that are the problem ?

Can you not understand if you took the drivers away from the road that the road itself is not dangerous but the drivers make it dangerous by their behaviour? It’s drivers that choose to make a space dangerous - no one forces them to drive faster

Yes, but if you want to change human behaviour, you have to do it via leaders, who use tools like traffic calming.

A lot of areas are never going to have a decent public transport system, because the cost of it would be astronomical. Our area has lots of small villages within a relatively short drive of town. To provide any sort of bus service, you would need multiple small buses doing convoluted routes for most of the day, and making very little in fares. The council couldn’t even keep a school bus service running due to the logistics - it uses taxis instead. A lot of the roads are unsuitable for cycling, not just due to safety issues - which would obviously reduce with less traffic, but not disappear entirely - but due to the abundance of large hills. There’s a village near me where you’d have absolutely no prospect of getting young children to school on bike or foot as the hill between the village and pretty much everything else is about a mile long and so steep that most of the local cycling club get off and push.

None of these villages have shops or schools or any other amenities. There is a park and ride in this area, but for a lot of the villages, it’s as long a drive to get to it as it is to just go into town by car in the first place. We’ve actually got some very good cycle routes, but most people would have to drive - with your bike - to access them.

The LA are constantly consulting on public transport/traffic reduction schemes, but the geography is a massive problem. Even in the centre, the layout of the streets and the shape of the land means that there is very little they can do. Most of the centre is historically important, with lots of tiny streets and dead-ends and corners that buses struggle to navigate. They’ve done a lot of work on pedestrian and cycle routes, but there’s little more they can do, short of turning back the clock to a time when the village shops were viable businesses and people didn’t have access to the level of services we have now.

@Momicrone

Damebarsatemydogsphone, aren't you forgetting that sitting on public transport, you are letting someone else take the stress of driving, you can look out the window or read, and no traffic jams if you're on a train, I know which I prefer, I always feel sorry for car drivers stuck in traffic

You're assuming it's on time or turns up at all! The amount of cancelled/late trains recently is ridiculous. The upside is each time I can claim my money back as they've been that late but does mean I'm late every time.

"There are places where that school bus is free - which I think it shoulld be"

Secondary age children are entitled to free transport (in England) if the nearest school is more than 3 miles away. This would usually be a free bus pass.

Posted too soon. It wouldn’t just be an overhaul of transport systems that would be needed to significantly reduce car reliance. It would be a drastic overhaul of almost every aspect of society. Increased WFH is a recent change, but you’d also need to change they way we access heath services, education, disability support, benefits systems, maternity services, children’s services, leisure and enrichment, culture, shopping, social activities, all of it. And everything is intertwined - find a way to stop people needing to drive into the city centre for work or to access services, and you make a lot of businesses non-viable. De-centralise health services and you run out of funding for some of those services.

Some areas could certainly benefit from straightforward investment in buses for example. In other areas, your pretty much stuck with something that worked fifty years ago, but which can’t possibly work now.

A lot of areas are never going to have a decent public transport system, because the cost of it would be astronomical.

That's where some sort of modern shared taxi/bus system needs to come into play. Dial-a-bus. Buses coming to order almost so you need to book it.

@Dinoteeth

A lot of areas are never going to have a decent public transport system, because the cost of it would be astronomical.

That's where some sort of modern shared taxi/bus system needs to come into play. Dial-a-bus. Buses coming to order almost so you need to book it.

Trouble is that with a "dial a bus" mini bus network (or taxis), the roads would be full of minibuses and taxis instead of cars. It doesn't actually save many journeys because most people aren't doing the same journey at the same time.

If I've got a hospital appointment at 9 am and my neighbour has a hospital appointment at 11 am, she's not going to want to come in my "shared taxi" at 8.30 is she? So she'll want her own "shared taxi", but that means the taxi firm trying to find someone else with a 11 am hospital appointment somewhere along a roughly similar route. Just not going to happen is it? That means they'd have separate taxi journeys, so just what's the different between that and just using our cars in the first place (besides it costing more!)?

Mini buses and shared taxis are fine in theory where you have small groups of people starting/ended their journeys in similar places (or en route), but it's a logistical nightmare to organise that and will be inconvenient because everyone's timings can't possibly fall into place and people will end up waiting around.

A hybrid system is needed where cheap buses/trains are available for the high volume/high density journeys to give car drivers a genuine alternative for the bog standard journeys, such as school runs, workers commuting to retail parks/industrial estates/office blocks etc, just to get as much traffic off the roads as possible. That reduces congestion for everyone else who has to use a car (i.e. rural areas, hospital appointments, heavy shopping, etc.).

Even where there is a "bus service" of sorts, buses don't even connect well between routes.

My son does a 7 mile journey between his University campus and his team's football stadium. Obviously a Uni is a main "hub" for buses, and the image looks good as there's literally always a bus at the main square, often 2 or 3, with departures literally every 5 minutes or so. But there are no direct buses to the football stadium and few direct buses to the city centre (first change point) so even the first stage takes ages as the buses go all round the houses to get to the city centre bus station. OK, a change isn't the end of the World. But it's not just one change, it's 3 changes at various places, so a total of 4 buses to go just 7 miles between two pretty large/important places, both having lots of people wanting a bus from each point (Although granted, not too many wanting that exact journey but lots wanting to go elsewhere from each end). But even from the city centre main bus station near the Uni, it's still not a direct bus route and still needs at least 2 changes en route.

I've just checked on Google and total journey time by bus is whopping 94 minutes (remember this is only 7 miles) and that isn't even door to door as there's still about half a mile of walking. Direct door to door bus would be over 2 hours.

It's only 2 hours 15 minutes to walk the whole route!

In fact, yesterday's game, he did walk most of the route as the buses were chaotic due to some road works, services randomly cancelled, etc. He got off half way between Uni and city centre to walk to try and get the bus from city centre towards the Stadium, but he missed it by a couple of minutes and it was only an hourly service, so he took a different bus in a slightly different route, and got off half way on that and then walked a mile or so to get to another route to get a bus for a mile or so, then got off and walked the rest of the way.

When he rang last night, he says he's taking his car to Uni after Easter - he didn't take it as he thought the buses would be OK with it being a Uni and the image of buses everywhere, but yesterday was the last straw.

Can you not understand if you took the drivers away from the road that the road itself is not dangerous but the drivers make it dangerous by their behaviour? It’s drivers that choose to make a space dangerous - no one forces them to drive faster

Drivers can also make it safer. My route to either walk or cycle is along the river, no lighting and trees on the other side of the road. If I was to cycle I would welcome a few cars so I'm not on my own.

@Badbadbunny that's where some sort of dial a bus would work he can't be the only person going from the Uni to the football stadium.

And it would run on demand rather than a paper timetable.

Strictly1, no mode of transport for longer journeys is perfect, both motor transport and trains have their issues in terms of delays, but trains aren't 'always' late, as cars can't always get you to your destination on time

Pinksparkly, or more cyclists

I live in a city in the north there isn't the volume of journey's to make most routes viable for public transport .
it's not densely populated not everyone wants to can cycle .

@ivykaty44

You cannot widen a road through a fucking house and yes in some areas the house it literally next to the road no footpath HOUSE

Many roads are 3/4 lanes, with two lanes used for free storage of cars. How about sharing jyst one of those lanes for a cycle path - a third of quarter, not half

There are options here though. Make the street one way. Cars park diagonally from kerb and only on one side of the road. Et voila - more space for pedestrians, cyclists and drivers.

Combine this with a scheme in the area to incentivise less car ownership/more car sharing/more E-bikes/cargo bikes and your laughing.

I'm terraced areas I think going one way and adjusting the parking will be the only way there will be space for cars to go electric with charging points built under the pavement so no trip hazards.

This is the sort of imaginative solution we need.

Would require a wider planning exercise but should be possible with a bit of will from the people and the local authorities.

@Octomingo

It's not the distance, it's how dangerous the road is. I don't like driving it, so I wouldn't like to cycle or walk it. It's national speed limit, bendy and hedgy, with passing places for cars.

It might be NSL but that just means that you drive appropriately to the conditions. I've never seen anyone doing 60mph on a single-track lane with passing places. Cycling along such a road seriously would not bother me.

@RomeoOscarXrayIndigoEcho

how is any of your suggestions going to aid sharing the road with other road users? Where in your suggestions do you fit a cycle path? Pavement that a motorised walking aid can get along and cross the road?

A lot of areas are never going to have a decent public transport system, because the cost of it would be astronomical.

yet nearly £8 billion can be used for fuel freeze for private car use in 5 years

who use tools like traffic calming.

that need to be used as its the drivers that are dangerous - not the road. Take away the pedestrians and cyclists and the road is still dangerous - take away the drivers and the road becomes safe

thats why so many cyclists want segregation for safety

plan towns and habitat around pedestrians, trains, buses and cycling and not private cars and the towns would become safer and traffic calming petitions wouldn't be needed.

its amazing anyone ever goes to centre parks where they have to leave their cars at the gates as the whole living area has been dedicated to people and when they want to go out they have to travel to their car to leave the area

@ivykaty44

Why do we tolerate such terrible public transport and cycling infrastructure?

that was the ops question

and so many replies are - public transport and cycling infastructor are really bad - so ill drive

but thats not answering the question

why do you accept it?

I think part of the answer is what I referred to in one of my earlier posts.

The twenty minute town concept. That could be applied anywhere and would make a massive difference to all our lifestyles.

I don't tolerate it BTW. I'm actively involved in trying to make changes, albeit small changes and encourage others to do the same.

Including doing all sorts of training to become a Bikeability instructor. I've taken 100 school children through levels 1 and 2 and supported parents (mostly Mums) to be more confident when cycling.

My small town is planning more cycling routes to aid with the 20 minute town aim.

I live maybe a 30 minute walk from our "high street". In busy times I can't get from my home to the post office (for example) quicker than a car.

Mind you I can do so much of what I need to online now (even the post office!) that a trip to the high street is rare.

I've even paid 60p for some mail to be picked up. So much cheaper than me going to the post office in terms of my time never mind the other costs.

There are solutions WE just have to ask for them, campaign for them and support them. Not simply ignore them and write them off.

@Spikeyball

I'm not obsessed with cars. I didn't have my own car until I was 40 and I don't like driving but I have a severely autistic teenager who can't walk far, can't use a bike and can't cope with public transport (as well as others not being tolerant of shrieking, spitting, punching etc) so we need a car.

If those who could use alternative means of transport did then there would be fewer cars on the road meaning those, like you, with no option had a quicker drive with more likelihood of parking more easily at your destination.

I love my car and the freedom it brings. I also live in London. Public transport in areas should be improved, if there isn't much. However it doesn't mean people would give up their cars, a lot of people enjoy having a car and/or it's convenient for them. I wouldn't bike ride as I simply don't like it and other forms of transport would add extra time onto my journeys that I'm not willing to add.

[quote ivykaty44]@RomeoOscarXrayIndigoEcho

how is any of your suggestions going to aid sharing the road with other road users? Where in your suggestions do you fit a cycle path? Pavement that a motorised walking aid can get along and cross the road?[/quote]
Well in the picture you shared there are 4 "lanes" one for driving each direction and one on each side of the road full of cars.

Make that road one way and park cars diagonally from one side only - that only takes 2 "lanes" so you now have 2 lanes of space to play with.

Make the pavement wider and put the cycle lanes next to the pavement with some sort of kerb that meets the needs of sight impaired people

So it'd be:

Wider pavement
Cycle lanes separate from road and from pedestrians
Diagonal car parking (with built in charge hubs)
Road for driving - one way only.

Obviously there'd be another road nearby which did the same but goes one way in the other direction to allow cars to travel a route.