To think the NHS is just not working?

[Caketeaandwine]

My toddler has an ear infection. Repeatedly rang the doctor and couldn’t get through. Eventually got through and couldn’t get an appointment, rang 111, had to listen to a lot of messages about covid, eventually through to someone - who rang my GP and sorted a (telephone) appointment.

Isn’t it time we admitted it’s not working at all as a system?

@MaryAndHerNet

The Tories have cut it to the bone so that it breaks and then they can sell it off.

It's not the fault of yhe NHS, it's the fault of every single Tory voter.

Yeah and it did so well under labour it's a poison chalice for any party

I’ve had great service from NHS for all my family. Same day appointments where needed. My dad just got a cancer diagnosis and his treatment was swift. My mum has a cataract op next week. They have all been fast. I did a self referral for knee pain and was seen within a couple weeks. For non urgent I’ve been using the online service and always had a doctor call within a day.

Free at point of service is essential for us as we are low income or retired. I certainly couldn’t manage on a US type system.

@Sarahcoggles
I’m talking about paying tax on the pension pot that is in excess of £1.1 million in value. Not income tax. I’m thinking you don’t understand the uk tax system.

The reason why so many of us healthcare workers are tied to their computers is so that we can complete the mountain of paperwork that is vital to deliver the correct service but also to cover our arses if a patient complains etc. I admit , its too much paperwork though

I think it depends where you are and whereas that shouldn't be the case. The GP surgery here is amazing, can't fault them. During covid we had in person appointments if needed, the duty doctor always calls back within a few hours and if we have had to go in it's always been same day. DS has had to go into hospital several times and they've always been brilliant, he has a consultant as well and we didn't have to fight for it. Appreciate this isn't the case across the board but this trust doesn't get magic additional money and it covers a huge and diverse area so has challenges still.

I gave up on the NHS (impossible for working people to get an appointment) and would do any routine medical stuff when I was back in Australia each year. For a system which took such a hefty chunk of my pay cheque - I would have expected better.

Now back in Aus, I spend 1-2% of my salary on the local NHS equivalent and have additional basic hospital private insurance for $100 a month. Far better.

Do people think privatising it or introducing an insurance based system will suddenly magic up the
thousands of missing nurses and doctors ? What will change that will prevent the NHS haemorrhaging staff ?

@rwalker satisfaction with the NHS was highest it's ever been under Labour ?

Our government have purposely engineered this so we are all wonderfully accepting when it gets distributed to their mates and privatised. You're helping that along 😥

The NHS is incredible. It saved my life last year.

I think it’s a big leap from “my GP has a poor telephone system but I found a way round to get an appointment anyway” to the NHS is failing.

GPs have been hugely underfunded, we have one of the worst ratios of number of GPs to population in Europe. The issue is underfunding of the NHS but it is still absolutely the best way to provide healthcare to anyone who needs it.

I’m baffled that people think that a service that has to the do the same job but also provide profit to its shareholders will be better value. I wouldn’t want someone providing healthcare to be accountable to shareholders where their priority is making money, not looking after people.

I'm in East Anglia and can't really fault the service here. Yes, it's phone appointments (same day) but if you really need to 'show and tell' then you can get a face to face appointment. I've also been in hospital recently and I was pleasantly surprised at how calm and efficient things were plus treated like an individual. I've heard some right horror stories about other areas though, mainly inner city. Maybe the population growth in these areas is too much to keep up with demand.

I think it depends which part you are accessing. Our family has received excellent care in breast cancer screening, infant cochlear implants and reconstructive dental work in recent years.

I had symptoms of bowel cancer end of Jan . Spoke to a GP within 12 hours of calling surgery, saw GP the next day, GP phoned that night saying she’d referred me for bloods and that she’d done everything urgent/cancer pathway .

Bloods done - GP rang and said bloods and samples were off and I needed further tests, that was first week of Feb .

Three weeks later I had a colonoscopy - and got the all clear . Took 35 days from initially seeing GP to getting colonoscopy .

Similarly my mental health abs taken a dive, my GP rings me every week to check I’m OK and I was referred for rapid access help - a psychologist rang yesterday (so a 3 week wait) and said she can work with me for sixteen weeks, and if she feels that hasn’t helped she can pass me on for a CPN and longer term support .

I’ve nothing but praise for the NHS just now .

Working for a profit sharpens services. There’s no hiding place. The NHS needs breaking up into smaller delivery pieces. Of course it saves lives but some care is woeful. Try being elderly and see what it’s like in some areas.

The red tape and bureaucracy really seem to prevent actual whole patient care in my experience. Just think if a GP or a consultant didnt have to mail letters all over the place or fill out this form or that form what preventative services they could provide, or patient education, rather than seemingly always in reactive firefighting mode.

I have a complex genetic disease that will eventually kill me - diagnosis was missed for months because I couldnt get GP appointments, then when I did I had five minutes to discuss one of my issues. Turned out one issue was actually related to the other but the locum GPs were not interested in anything and very difficult to talk to. With routine preventative examinations, like those offered yearly in other countries, this would have been caught much earlier and my life saved.

At this point we are planning a return to the US so I can access better healthcare options and a wider range of conventional and new therapies, in state of the art hospitals, than I can here. Ive done the maths - the UK taxes of all sort take a huge chunk of our income and the future disability support is worse than the US. If I need to pay for medical care however its delivered, I want the best I can get. I even went private for my ongoing care here and its... fine. The care standard is now just about to the basic level I would expect in a first world country. But the hospital is falling to pieces, the equipment is 10 years old, and I cant get in to see a physio for weeks on end which means I can't help myself stay as healthy as possible because I need some guidance on appropriate exercises and symptom risk management.

I think if you are at either end of the care spectrum - illness with vague/common symptoms or end of life care you are at greater risk of poor treatment because no one has the time (or energy) to rope together all the consultants needed to resolve issues and the systems in place are a collaboration barrier. The NHS does not work for these patients. If you have an acute, serious issue with a defined, routine, systemic treatment pathway your experience will likely be different.

The thing is the GP isnt really going to do a lot for a chest or ear infection in a child. They are often viral, so antibiotics are pointless, and even if bacterial, are usually mild illnesses where your child should recover after a couple of weeks without needing antibiotics.

We should be saving antibiotics for when you are seriously ill, not to shorten mild illnesses in children

Perhaps it's a postcode lottery but in my experience if it something serious the care is excellent.
My son has a chronic lifelong condition. He has 12 weekly MDT clinic appointments. These have remained face to face bar 2. We have direct 24 hour access to the children's ward and a speciality reg. As well as specialist nurses office hours. All of which we I have direct lines for.
My daughter is hearing impaired. She had a new, only just released hearing implant last year. We were referred to the new hospital in Feb and had the operation (that was complex and long) in November. So really quick .
I have never not seen the GP the same day when I phone regarding one of the kids. I email for my repeat prescriptions and the chemist text me a couple of days later to collect.
So in my case the NHS works and has been fantastic. I couldn't be more grateful.

Why are you phoning the GP for an ear infection in the first place. That’s a pharmacy job or just analgesia

But the hospital is falling to pieces, the equipment is 10 years old, and I cant get in to see a physio for weeks on end

The experience massively varies. I've found that when it comes to urgent life threatening situations, this is when you see the NHS at it's best. Suddenly the waiting times vanish, consultants materialise along with all the other experts etc.

But if you have something more chronic where the immediate issue isnt going to kill you tomorrow, there's a lot less help available.

@Youally

Why are you phoning the GP for an ear infection in the first place. That’s a pharmacy job or just analgesia

It depends- an outer ear infection then yes a pharmacist is fine, but certain symptoms do need seeing and treatment is prescription only.

Do people think privatising it or introducing an insurance based system will suddenly magic up the thousands of missing nurses and doctors ? What will change that will prevent the NHS haemorrhaging staff
Exactly this. We can add 20 pages of discussions, make it a political party issue, moan about personal experiences, but ultimately, it comes down to this.

What we need is make working for the NHS more attractive. As we recruit more, pressure on those who held the fort will reduce and the NHS will function better.

Making it more attractive might cost more, but it's much more than just about money.

@Libertybear80

Our government have purposely engineered this so we are all wonderfully accepting when it gets distributed to their mates and privatised. You're helping that along 😥

Large chunks are already outsourced, not the same as selling off but esentially private companies being paid by the NHS to run a service and turning a profit.

When ds was little we found the best way to get an appointment for him was for one of us to be outside the doctors for 8 am and get an appointment that way and then go back again for the actual appointment a few hours later. Otherwise if we got through on the phone we sometimes got a receptionist who refused to accept that it was urgent and wouldn't give a same day appointment.With covid I suspect that route has gone.

A GP should always see a child with a possible ear infection @Youally. The reason for this is they can damage hearing. They must be treated and can often be treated with antibiotics. I have a friend with seriously compromised hearing due to multiple ear infections. I had these as a child too and my GP Dix take it seriously when DD had an ear infection when she was little. As they did a chest infection. Ears do need to be looked at or serious issues can arise.

"The thing is the GP isnt really going to do a lot for a chest or ear infection in a child"

That depends upon the child. We have had several 'run ins' with 111 staff who assume ear infections can wait and won't listen.