To think the NHS is just not working?

[Caketeaandwine]

My toddler has an ear infection. Repeatedly rang the doctor and couldn’t get through. Eventually got through and couldn’t get an appointment, rang 111, had to listen to a lot of messages about covid, eventually through to someone - who rang my GP and sorted a (telephone) appointment.

Isn’t it time we admitted it’s not working at all as a system?

@bitchesgonnabitch

The obvious solution is to re-nationalise primary care and bring GPs back into the proper NHS under the same terms and conditions as every other NHS department and service, who don't get to pick and choose who they see, when they open, what they are paid, their specific working hours. That doesn't mean I think GPs are overpaid or don't work enough, just that operating under their own individual terms and conditions differently to the rest of the NHS is not working out for the patient, for A&E, or for the rest of the NHS.

What expertise do you have to assert that this is the “obvious solution”?

Watched my 50 yr old parent needlessly die on an empty, grubby ward with sepsis after coming in with something else.

It was like a developing country. (this was pre covid).
Hospital admitted fault. Lack of Dr, nurses & money.

It’s bad. Getting worse by the day.

It’s not working because the Tories are constantly trying to underfund and kneecap it so that it DOESN'T work in order to push privatisation. Don’t fall for it.

I say needlessly as they left him with out antibiotics (missed doses)*

I pay privately for everything.

If I told you how the NHS has let me down you would not believe it. I am planning to sue them.

Has anyone seen any figures on cost of providing enough to satisfy everyone and what tax rate would have to be.

How many more GPs would solve the immediate problem?

Who decides how many doctors can be trained?

I work in the NHS and have for not far off twenty years. I’m was a massive advocate of it but there’s no denying it’s failing patients AND staff. Not all the time I will add some are still getting amazing care and it really does seem postcode lottery or dependant on medical conditions/some departments better than others.

Underfunded and under invested in massively old buildings that are falling to bits, always understaffed and those of us left are burnt out and lots ready to throw in the towel because we can’t do our jobs as we should!

Our GP surgery is really terrible and had to operate under special measures ( not sure of the correct terminology) for a while but when I had concerning symptoms last year (during Covid restrictions) I got tests and an appointment with a GP straight away. I’ve had a few hospital appointments as a follow up and really been looked after very well. Then suddenly last month had a different issue that came out of the blue, from the start of symptoms to going for an emergency operation it was less than 12 hours. So while the NHS struggles with everyday illness my experience is when it’s serious it really works.

It's not that bad here. I complete an e-consult form and the gp refers it to a consultant and let's me know. Although none of us have needed to see a GP since the pandemic, it's just referrals.

I think this depends on where you are. In the last 3 months we've had:

1. I requested an asthma review after ignoring the issue for years. Had a telephone appointment with the GP nurse within the week on Christmas eve in the morning. Picked my prescription up from the pharmacy a few days later once they had re-opened.

2. DC had a nasty infection. This was also just before Christmas. Covid result took ages so couldn't attend GP practice. I was worried though and phoned them up. Spoke to receptionist. Had a call back from the ANP within the hour. Chatted through my concerns and was left re-assured. Prescription issued as back up over the holidays. Was able to pick this up within 30 minutes.

3. DC developed a tooth ache last week. Seen by the private dentist within the day. Referred on to NHS hospital to extract tooth under general anaesthetic. Got a phone call today with extraction date next week.

4. DC developed an infection in pierced ear lobe (no, it hadn't been done in Claire's) and the backing of the ear ring was totally hidden inside the lobe. All gone. Noticed this late at night. DC got really upset. Went to A&E. Got a warm welcome. Triaged within the hour, seen by a doctor and ear ring removed within another hour. Went home with antibiotics.

5. I had a virus induced asthma attack. Inhaler only helped temporarily. Went to A&E. Triaged withing 10 minutes. Seen by doctor within the hour. Assessed, received a nebuliser and was given a steroid prescription. Was home again within 2 hours.

I can't fault the service my family has been receiving lately at all.

I frankly do not believe GPS are under funded. They have massive pensions which enable them to retire very early. If they worked full time to 65 it would help! But they don’t. They go off early and work part time. So why should we train more to fund a lifestyle and pension that others do not get. They have created their own shortage.

I can only speak for our surgery, but that definitely isn’t working. They will pre book appointments for children’s vaccinations and nothing else. Everything else is on the day and they won’t book an appointment for anything other than, in the receptionist’s words, “acute medical emergencies”.
For any problem not deemed an emergency, it is physically impossible to see or speak to anyone and they have no provision for econsult or an online system etc.
The recent NHS smear test campaign? No use for anyone at my surgery, as they don’t do them anymore. They just won’t book them.

@Politics4me how on earth is that misinformation?

Out of hours and walk in centres are already privatised, all the ones around me are ran by virgincare.

It’s clearly a very deliberate and calculated decision to mismanage the health care system and run it into the ground, but making it look like it’s the prize of the UK with sodding doorstep claps and crowd funding.

It’s a fucking shambles, paediatric cancer patients have to start go fund mes for treatments readily available in other parts of the world. People die on waiting lists. You can’t get a GP appointment for love nor money which is forcing people to a and e which in turn is increasing wait times and adverse outcomes. Fucking shambles

I work in the NHS and have used it.

My bit of it works really well. People are highly satisfied with the service they get with few exceptions and we get good outcomes. I feel really proud to be part of an amazing, hardworking and dedicated team.

I’ve had to use the NHS for various reasons, different areas and services. All my experiences have been average to excellent.

This is in Wales - here very little is outsourced.

My experience with relatives in England has been much worse. Awful experience up North sadly.

We have a large number of people who are living longer - fabulous that we can do this. However now that we live longer we don’t generally live healthily. So instead of dying from an illness that once would have killed you, many people live with that and continue to deteriorate. This means that they need a lot more care which inevitably takes longer to treat. Additionally, we are awful as a country at self care. 1 bout of vomiting and there’s a lot of people who will immediately queue in A&E because it needs fixing now. Care is so much more complicated with a large, aging population with fewer Dr’s and nurses and physical space. People are clueless when it comes to the issues faced by the NHS. We have people complaining about being on an ambulance for 3 hours and I don’t blame them BUT when that happens it’s because A&E is full. Waiting on beds but the wards are full. The only way to get a bed is if someone dies or we discharge them. There’s not enough community care to send them home and it’s not safe…so where do these Ill people go?? The public think there’s a quick fix but it’s not simple by any means.

It’s easy to blame the Tories, but it’s been badly run for years.

I went on a waiting list in 2004, I eventually got an op in August 2006. I needed a second operation, was referred immediately in August 2006. I got the op in September 2008. The first appointment they could offer me for a follow up review was July 2009. I ended up paying to have it privately.

Wasn’t the Tories in No 10 then.

It lacks a decent IT system

My DH regularly received appointments at different hospitals up to 2 hours drive between on the same day. Turns up for appointments that have been cancelled and a letter arrives up to 10 days later. Turns up with an appointment letter to find no appointment has been made as no clinic is running (many people turn to to the phantom clinics). Gets sent an appointment for 9am when the earliest public transport could get you there is noon (its a very rural clinic)

Cancer patients fill A&E as they are inappropriately discharged with no contact details if anything goes wrong.

No appointment made to remove stitches on discharge and unable to make one. No contact from anyone after major cancer surgery.

And the endless letters send from consultants to the GP- what a waste of time. just have access to the same IT systems so that brief notes can be added and viewed by all

It isnt just about GPs.

@chibcha

Watched my 50 yr old parent needlessly die on an empty, grubby ward with sepsis after coming in with something else.

It was like a developing country. (this was pre covid).
Hospital admitted fault. Lack of Dr, nurses & money.

It’s bad. Getting worse by the day.

I’m so sorry.

It seems we’ve both lost our parents to something ultimately preventable.

There’s an impeccable cover up culture too. Especially when you’ve been seen by different entities, different trusts or healthboards and GPs

@Sarahcoggles

There’s nothing inherently wrong with a state funded system, but the NHS as it is just isn’t working. There are too many patients and not enough clinicians. It’s basic maths. I’ve been a GP for 25 years, and yesterday for the first time ever, we had to close our doors. We didn’t have any staff off sick, it was just a normal Monday. But the number of patients needing/wanting appointments meant that we overwhelmed. We would have had to work from 8am till midnight to see everyone, and that wouldn’t have been safe. The on call doctor, also very experienced, was nearly in tears. We ended up telling patients to call 111 or go to A&E, which would of course be equally busy. But at least in A&E you can go home when your shift ends. It’s a mess.

You are joking right? I do not get to leave on time after my 13 hour shift. Ever. Because we are overrun. Many of the patients presenting were unable to get GP appointments or were send to the ED by their GP without them ever having seen them (which is where it would have become apparent that is decidedly a non-ED problem). There is constant pressure to cover more and more shifts because we just do not have the staff to deal with the demand. Which in turn is making things worse as people after months and months of this are dropping like flies. To top it all off I spent nearly an hour trying to get through to my patient's GP surgery to alert them to an urgent matter. I do take GP calls throughout my shift - they can bleep me directly - they do not have to spend an hour trying to get through to a receptionist.

I do appreciate how hard my GP colleagues work and would not normally go on a rant like this, but your comment about how it's all good to send them to the ED as at least they don't have to work late there has really rubbed me up the wrong way.

It's working very well considering how much it's funding has been cut and put out to tender these past ten years or so, plus the demands of covid. If you want an effective public funded health service, then we need to pay for it through our taxes . ( That is , very high earners need to pay alot more ) . And we need to stop having Tory governments !

It wohld certainly be nice if, after a long day being expected to smell someone's armpit on the tube and share an office with hundreds of others, I could actually see a GP. But no, it's still telephone appointments only for them.

@Mumoblue

It’s not working because the Tories are constantly trying to underfund and kneecap it so that it DOESN'T work in order to push privatisation. Don’t fall for it.

Yes totally this. It saddens me that people are doing exactly what the government have banked on. The NHS can work perfectly well when it is adequately funded and resourced. It has been pulled apart by this government to soften the public up for privatisation.

The Tories have cut it to the bone so that it breaks and then they can sell it off.

It's not the fault of yhe NHS, it's the fault of every single Tory voter.

Are you an ED reg?