To think the NHS is just not working?

[Caketeaandwine]

My toddler has an ear infection. Repeatedly rang the doctor and couldn’t get through. Eventually got through and couldn’t get an appointment, rang 111, had to listen to a lot of messages about covid, eventually through to someone - who rang my GP and sorted a (telephone) appointment.

Isn’t it time we admitted it’s not working at all as a system?

[quote TizerorFizz]@Sarahcoggles
So pro rata it’s £100,000 a year. Lots of people would be working really long hours for that too. If you are self employed it’s easy to rack up hours. So are you saying full time GPs work 90-100 hours a week.

30 years working doesn’t make you 65 does it. Maybe work full time? Might help patients and reduce waiting times. My DH is self employed and a business owner he has now worked for 47 years. I don’t think medics realise how long and hard other people work.[/quote]
Reduce waiting times where and how?

An imperfect NHS is better than no NHS

So, and I know this is paraphrased, nurses are lazy and stupid (“hardly intellectually demanding work”) and GPs are lazy and overpaid. No mention of hospital doctors just yet, are they next (probably not, they can do no wrong)?

A lot of bitter complaining but no suggestions or thought as to why nurses are busy on their computers (pRoBaBlY pLaYiNg SoLiTaRe) or why GPs work part-time (something something lazy something something £200k a year something something all locums).

@FangsForTheMemory

Are you shilling for Boris Johnson, op? IT sounds like it. The NHS is fit for purpose, but it has suffered from long-term underfunding. Blame the government, not the NHS.

That's the problem people stupidly think it's ALL down to funding . Throw money at it all day long you will not solve this problem .

You ask anyone who works for the NHS about the astronomical eye watering amount of waste and inefficiency .

What about our role to the NHS can you imagine if people made better choices with

drugs
alcohol
diet
exercise
smoking
just think how much burden these shit choices put on the NHS

Staff in our trust some have gone part time and then doing the same clinics on bank/locum rate and literally naming there price as they have no choice but to pay it .

But hey lets take the easy route take no responsibility for it and blame someone else.

We all want more money for the NHS but look at the outcry when the money comes form us with NI increase we want our cake and eat it .

Fraud the NHS themselves estimate that they lose 5.7 million a year due to fraud Yes 5.7 million

Yes yes funding is an issue but lets not kid ourselves it isn't the major cause of the problem in the NHS .

The NHS is NOT underfunded , billons of £££ has been constantly poured into it. The reason is MISMANAGEMENT, WASTE, and too many non medical managers, too much money wasted on pointless courses, sending staff on diversity courses, too many useless staff in which, like most public services, are virtually impossible to get rid of. It needs massive reform from the top down.

Yes the NHS is underfunded, but that doesn't account for the frankly shitty, greedy attitudes of everyone at my GP surgery, or the target-cheating behaviour. After my car accident I was given a private appointment by a GP (via insurance) who was conducting it in their NHS surgery, which was closed for the afternoon to enable them to take on private work. The psychologist my work pays for also works for the NHS to get the nice pension, but part-time because they can charge £120 per hour for private patients.

I've been on an NHS consultant's waiting list for two years now, because they keep discharging me without me being seen. That then puts extra pressure on the specialist who is referring me over from their service, and the GP who has to deal with my auto-immune symptoms.

Working in healthcare used to be a vocation but being a patient these days feels like being a cash cow.

@BattenbergdowntheHatches

An imperfect NHS is better than no NHS

Not if you’re French, German or Swiss. Or any other better performing system (of which there are a multitude of examples).

Failed communist idea.

Exactly! Anyone who's had to use any of the vastly superior European or Canadian health services while travelling would be able to see the difference. Because the American system is shit, they assume all other countries' systems are shit as well.

@BattenbergdowntheHatches

An imperfect NHS is better than no NHS

Not if you’re French, German or Swiss. Or any other better performing system (of which there are a multitude of examples).

Failed communist idea.

Well it's what the UK have got and that's what we are talking about here.

@FangsForTheMemory

Are you shilling for Boris Johnson, op? IT sounds like it. The NHS is fit for purpose, but it has suffered from long-term underfunding. Blame the government, not the NHS.

This - the NHS is worth fighting for, and it plays into the government's hands to suggest that it isn't. They want to break it by chronically underfunding it, then 'fix' it by selling bits of it to their mates.

@BattenbergdowntheHatches

An imperfect NHS is better than no NHS

Not if you’re French, German or Swiss. Or any other better performing system (of which there are a multitude of examples).

Failed communist idea.

Very true. People only see the American model and reject any idea of change. The NHS is not fit for purpose anymore and no amount of funding will change that. The model has to change.

So you had a non-urgent medical need, and got an appointment after a very moderate amount of waiting and effort?

I don't know what you're whining about really.

But what is the point of a telephone appointment with suspected ear infection? The Dr needs to actually look in the ear

I'm sorry you had a bad experience but for your bad experience, here is my good experience......

Diagnosed with breast cancer via routine screening on Sept 2nd
Saw surgeon Sept 20th
Operation Oct 13
Saw radiologist Nov 2
Saw chemotherapist Dec 2
Chemotherapy started Dec 21
Chemo ended Feb 23
Radiotherapy planning today
Radiotherapy starts Mar 21
etc.
To say nothing of the covid and blood tests, the sessions with support nurses and advisors, the courtesy call from my gp etc.

For me, the NHS has been and continues to be everything I could ask.

@EatSleepRantRepeat

Yes the NHS is underfunded, but that doesn't account for the frankly shitty, greedy attitudes of everyone at my GP surgery, or the target-cheating behaviour. After my car accident I was given a private appointment by a GP (via insurance) who was conducting it in their NHS surgery, which was closed for the afternoon to enable them to take on private work. The psychologist my work pays for also works for the NHS to get the nice pension, but part-time because they can charge £120 per hour for private patients.

I've been on an NHS consultant's waiting list for two years now, because they keep discharging me without me being seen. That then puts extra pressure on the specialist who is referring me over from their service, and the GP who has to deal with my auto-immune symptoms.

Working in healthcare used to be a vocation but being a patient these days feels like being a cash cow.

GP surgeries are normally privately owned and run companies. The surgery does not belong to the NHS, and so the GP has every right to run any clinic (s)he choses in his/her own surgery

@MintJulia

I'm sorry you had a bad experience but for your bad experience, here is my good experience......

Diagnosed with breast cancer via routine screening on Sept 2nd
Saw surgeon Sept 20th
Operation Oct 13
Saw radiologist Nov 2
Saw chemotherapist Dec 2
Chemotherapy started Dec 21
Chemo ended Feb 23
Radiotherapy planning today
Radiotherapy starts Mar 21
etc.
To say nothing of the covid and blood tests, the sessions with support nurses and advisors, the courtesy call from my gp etc.

For me, the NHS has been and continues to be everything I could ask.

I hope all your treatment goes well. My mother has also had a great experience with having treatment for breast cancer recently and had her last radiotherapy app this week. Hers was also picked up on a routine appointment.

The NHS really couldn’t of done anymore.

My auntie also got the all clear from cervical cancer Xmas 2020 after treatment via the NHS.

I can get a same day appointment in my GP. Iv had abnormalities picked up on my own smears and been seen at the hospital within 2 weeks.

Not everyone’s experience is bad

Yawn. Most ear infections viral

The NHS isn’t working because it’s been underfunded and meddled with over and over again.

Local councils aren’t working because they’re under funding.

Education isn’t working because it’s been underfunded.

There’s a theme.

The government under funds public services (they did it with British Rail). Then they claims that only the magical private sector can save it.

Bull
Shit.

Look at the state of the energy markets. That’s the end result of privatisation. The government needs to fund the public sector properly. End of.

@Iggly
Energy markets are a world wide market. It has nothing to do with private companies. You really don’t understand the energy market if you think this. It’s total rubbish. We might need these companies to find new energy streams. The public cannot pay for everything and I usually find the people who want more pay less income tax or no tax at all.

We are going to have to take tough decisions about public funding. Let’s face it, the GPS should be paying tax on their pensions that we have mostly paid for in the first place. They have decided (not everyone obviously) to retire early and not pay the tax due. That means the nation suffers twice. No GPS and no tax. Great work if you can get it after just 30 years working for the NHS.

Def. area dependant. GPs are under such strain but if I phone up bang on 8 (already 30 people also in queue) and it’s obviously urgent and new issue I do get answered and a call back from a GP same day. Once she even gave me a call & then appt a few hours later. We have a great walk-in urgent care for those that can’t get a GP appt however and last Wednesday I was taken to A&E in an ambulance. A&E was horrendous as fuck. After 7 hours sitting on a wheelchair by some toilets in a corridor - and having received incorrect treatment anyway - I reached breaking point and discharged myself. There were simply not enough drs or beds.

I’ve since had fantastic day care and am
now on a cancer pathway so we’ll see how that goes as this is a new area. My previous cancer care was ten years at Barts in London and it too was brilliant. I think seemingly ‘minor’ illnesses; routine surgeries; GP caseloads & A&E waiting times are fucking terrible flash points don’t get me wrong. But as well as worrying about my imminent death at least I am not also worrying about leaving my family in an unthinkable amount of debt because I can’t afford health care.

Others comparing to Europe: I’ve also used the French system as both SIL live there but it’s co-pay! It’s not entirely free at point of use.

I have read GPs get paid an average of about £150 per patient per year. If they gave up NHS work like dentists- they could definitely charge a lot more. This would undoubtedly make them more accessible
I think I get a good service from my GP, but imagine it can be area dependent. Some areas have particularly high GP vacancy rates eg North and Midlands.

[quote TizerorFizz]@Sarahcoggles
So pro rata it’s £100,000 a year. Lots of people would be working really long hours for that too. If you are self employed it’s easy to rack up hours. So are you saying full time GPs work 90-100 hours a week.

30 years working doesn’t make you 65 does it. Maybe work full time? Might help patients and reduce waiting times. My DH is self employed and a business owner he has now worked for 47 years. I don’t think medics realise how long and hard other people work.[/quote]
I’m 55. I said I’d be retired in 10 years when the changes are planned. I couldn’t work full time as I’m a single parent with no other help, and I couldn’t fit in the 100 hours per week and be a parent as well.

The difference between me and your hard working business owning DH is that no one is slagging him off on mumsnet every bloody day!

[quote TizerorFizz]@Iggly
Energy markets are a world wide market. It has nothing to do with private companies. You really don’t understand the energy market if you think this. It’s total rubbish. We might need these companies to find new energy streams. The public cannot pay for everything and I usually find the people who want more pay less income tax or no tax at all.

We are going to have to take tough decisions about public funding. Let’s face it, the GPS should be paying tax on their pensions that we have mostly paid for in the first place. They have decided (not everyone obviously) to retire early and not pay the tax due. That means the nation suffers twice. No GPS and no tax. Great work if you can get it after just 30 years working for the NHS.[/quote]
GPs do pay tax on their pensions.