To ask how many of these you will do to stop global warming?

[LadyinRead]

Apparently if all indivisuals do these six things, we'll be 25% of the way to stopping global warming.
Are we doomed, then? I do most of these but (3) is impossible as appliances aren't built to last that long, and (4) would probably mean never seeing my parents again.

1. Eat a largely plant-based diet, with healthy portions and no waste

2. Buy no more than three new items of clothing per year. (Unlimited second-hand clothing allowed.)

1. Keep electrical products for at least seven years

1. Take no more than one short haul flight every three years and one long haul flight every eight years

1. Get rid of personal motor vehicles

6. Make at least one life shift to nudge the system, like moving to a green energy, insulating your home or changing pension supplier

www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/07/six-key-lifestyle-changes-can-help-avert-the-climate-crisis-study-finds?fbclid=IwAR2llmcsBWVwzzdF0kzuW2tVPAnUbrMUn2hatbfIsrUQ1Awi1EI5XSe1lF0

@mrkramps I don’t disagree but also there are just as many omnivores who don’t pay attention to where their food is coming from. Veganism isn’t just a bandwagon for a lot of people and in general when you seek something outside of the norm one tends to do one’s research

For U.K. grown plant based protein there’s an amazing company that grows it’s own beans and chickpeas, something we do usually have to look outside our borders for hodmedods.co.uk/pages/welcome

I guess I just get a bit annoyed with the constant backlash against those who chose plant based that they are unhealthy and unethical and haven’t thought it through

@DdraigGoch

I haven't read MBLs book but has it been independently peer reviewed? Was he using primary data or secondary data? Who set the inventory boundaries? Which energy sources?

My point is that there is so much well intended misinformation around sustainability, and the way that it is measured is incredibly complex and quite often fairly arbitrary and subjective. What works for one sector doesn't work for another sector.

For anyone seriously interested in sustainability I thoroughly recommend the free online training offered by the Green House Gas Protocol, the corporate standard is free and gives a good introduction to some of the complexities involved.

ghgprotocol.org/ and if you want to find out what individual companies and local administration's are up to try www.cdp.net/en

[quote deadlanguage]@Satsumaeater that is incorrect. Milk is around 700-800g co2 per pint and 85-90% of that comes from the farming, before you even get to the packaging, refrigeration, transportation etc. - in fact the transport is only 1%. Soya milk is around 500-600g per pint, by comparison.
A veggie burger is around 1kg vs 2.5kg for a cheeseburger. A banana is only 80g and 1.8kg for an out of season punnet of strawberries imported by air. At 2kg, a steak is about 25 bananas!
These figures are from Mike Berners-Lee’s book which lists the carbon footprint of lots of things. This doesn’t even factor in the impact of the methane from cows, which has a stronger greenhouse effect than co2.[/quote]
Methane is only short-lived though: clear.ucdavis.edu/explainers/why-methane-cattle-warms-climate-differently-co2-fossil-fuels

I'm not suggesting that the 124.1kg of meat consumed by the average American in a year is in any way sustainable (for the planet, or for the waistline), but surely there is a middle ground between that and the 3.78kg consumed by the average Indian. The average Brit today consumes 79.89kg (lower than most of the EU, believe it or not). I'm going to try and reduce my consumption to somewhere closer to the 40kg of meat you'd have got per year in wartime, plus probably 5kg or so of fish, as per the quantities eaten in the University of Cambridge study in 1939.

Bananas and oranges are great because both last long enough that they are transported by ship. Green beans, asparagus and cut flowers from Morocco or Kenya on the other hand are airfreighted so should be avoided at all costs. Don't just assume that British produce must be fine though, out-of-season strawberries come from heated polytunnels. I'm getting to grips with growing my own produce, that way I can be sure that no aeroplane or paraffin heater was involved.

Be cautious with fruit and veg grown in Spain too, the intensive farming practices used in Almeria are both an environmental and human rights disaster: www.foodunfolded.com/article/the-environmental-impacts-of-greenhouse-agriculture-in-almeria-spain

Almond 'milk' should also be passed over. Almond plantations are sucking California's aquifers dry.

Fish is a tricky one. Farmed fish (much like livestock) generates quite a bit of methane. Wild-caught fish (and the wild-shot duck I had on Sunday) however only impacts the climate through the exhaust of the trawler. After all, humans didn't intervene to make it breed, it would have existed anyway. But overfishing brings its own problems of species loss and plastic waste.

@DdraigGoch emissions are expressed as CO2 equivalent over a 100 year period. The full list is here <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.ghgprotocol.org/sites/default/files/ghgp/Global-Warming-Potential-Values%2520%2528Feb%252016%25202016%2529_1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjr-rPjkLf2AhU8QEEAHdq_DQ8QFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2qJRDeoCIeKAo_RQvtqUnw" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.ghgprotocol.org/sites/default/files/ghgp/Global-Warming-Potential-Values%2520%2528Feb%252016%25202016%2529_1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjr-rPjkLf2AhU8QEEAHdq_DQ8QFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2qJRDeoCIeKAo_RQvtqUnw

[quote Daftasabroom]@CeratopsofthePharoahs and anyone else thinking of fitting solar panels please consider an air source heat pump first.[/quote]
I've considered it and discounted it. I don't believe that it will cope with supplying my 1835-built house. An ASHP would be far too costly to run, especially with electricity rates going up to a minimum of 28p/kWh and likely to rise further.

I need to spend what funds I have on improving the insulation of my house (not a straightforward matter with a house of this age) and taking other measures (such as PV panels) to reduce the cost of living here. All the work involved will come to tens of thousands of pounds, and it will take me the next twenty years at least to do it piecemeal as funds permit. Only then will I consider a heat pump.

1.Eat a largely plant-based diet, with healthy portions and no waste

I do this as much as I can. Most family the same/ semi/ fully veggie.

1. Buy no more than three new items of clothing per year. (Unlimited second-hand clothing allowed.)

Not possible with DC's outgrowing things. I always look in charity shops first but they dont always stock the size! I never buy clothes for the sake of it, only to replace worn out etc.

1. Keep electrical products for at least seven years

I wish! Can they design stuff that lasts! Again I only buy to replace broken things.

1. Take no more than one short haul flight every three years and one long haul flight every eight years

Hardly ever fly. This is easy. The UK is great for holidays. Don't even need to fly to Europe.

1. Get rid of personal motor vehicles

When hell freezes over. Maybe with free public transport, immaculate vehicles, no drunks, 24 hour service, conductors, services to all areas, joined up services etc.

1. Make at least one life shift to nudge the system, like moving to a green energy, insulating your home or changing pension supplier

I try to be as ethical a spender as possible.

[quote Daftasabroom]@DdraigGoch

I haven't read MBLs book but has it been independently peer reviewed? Was he using primary data or secondary data? Who set the inventory boundaries? Which energy sources?

My point is that there is so much well intended misinformation around sustainability, and the way that it is measured is incredibly complex and quite often fairly arbitrary and subjective. What works for one sector doesn't work for another sector.

For anyone seriously interested in sustainability I thoroughly recommend the free online training offered by the Green House Gas Protocol, the corporate standard is free and gives a good introduction to some of the complexities involved.

ghgprotocol.org/ and if you want to find out what individual companies and local administration's are up to try www.cdp.net/en[/quote]
I don't know the details but there is a chapter dedicated to how the figures are calculated. He's a Professor at Lancaster University and runs a consultancy which analyses carbon footprints so I'm confident that he knows his stuff. Obviously a car is so complex that you can never account for all of the embodied emissions, instead you can only estimate based on the weights of the raw materials and the emissions of the factory.

My point through all of this talk about electric cars is that: yes, they are better than ICE cars; but they are not as good as not owning a car in the first place. That's unarguable. It's an improvement, but it's not going to absolve the owner of their sins.

The 80% of society who live in urban areas need to move towards using bikes and public transport for most of their journeys, hiring vehicles for the odd occasions when you can't avoid motoring (moving house, or making a journey of more than 10 miles before the first train in the morning for example). Personal ownership of BEVs is then only really necessary for those who do live rurally, plus tradesmen who need to carry tools from job to job.

There is indeed a lot of misinformation around, and I do regard "renewable energy tariffs" as just such an example of greenwashing. By all means change to them (I'm on one), but don't fool yourself that by being on one you can use excessive amounts of power without hurting the planet.

One thing which hasn't come up in this thread yet, do you all know the impact of your mortgage and other financial services? Depending upon how big it is, your mortgage could easily be the cause of more emissions than an omnivorous diet.

Is invading Ukraine with electric tanks ok?

The 80% of society who live in urban areas need to move towards using bikes and public transport for most of their journeys, hiring vehicles for the odd occasions when you can't avoid motoring (moving house, or making a journey of more than 10 miles before the first train in the morning for example

I work 4 miles from home. Driving takes me 15-20 minutes, public transport over an hour. I've thought about cycling but I have two choices of route, neither of which are safe. I'm not spending longer commuting and I'm certainly not putting myself at risk.

Public transport needs to be improved (although I'd still rather ride a bike than use it) and road surfaces and lighting need to be improved.

@DdraigGoch I don't really buy into small scale renewables (solar and wind), the grid tie and maintenance are a disproportionate cost compared to large scale. Generating heat is a huge challenge, with direct heat from renewables you will never get much more than 90% efficiency.

There are air source heat pumps that specifically designed to work for older properties and a direct replacement for a gas boiler. These can extract 3 or 4 times as much heat from the air as they draw in from the grid.

And a genuine renewable tariff will have an independently audited "renewable energy certificate" and the company will not be allowed to sell more renewable than it buys. This is Scope 2 and creates a market for renewable energy.

life can actually be better if you are not tied into a system of constant consumption- if you are as old as me you can remember a life when consumption was much lesser, international travel was a real luxury etc...but we weren't miserable!

Well said. Many young people just don't realise that life was not always the same as it is now, and yet we coped and were happy. People didn't have half the amount of clothing, or gadgets, they do now - and certainly didn't fly nearly as much - but were content. I find it terribly sad that shopping seems to have become a pastime, rather than something people do out of necessity.

@flowerycurtain

I won't do 1 or 5.

I won't go plant based. I will eat mostly plants, grown in this country or near neighbours in season and things like welsh lamb or grass fed uk beef. I will not subscribe to buying in avocados or almond Milk as being better in the uk for the uk.

I can't do 5. Neither can most of the farmers who grow lots of your food.

Happily consume less, fly less though.

Your point about locally grown in season in food items only works if almond milk has the same carbon footprint as something farmed down the road.

Food miles are such a tiny number in the overall amount of co2 in a food item. Modern cargo ships are incredibly efficient and next to no food is flown in.

There are air source heat pumps that specifically designed to work for older properties and a direct replacement for a gas boiler. These can extract 3 or 4 times as much heat from the air as they draw in from the grid.

I live in a badly insulated 1930s maisonette. I really don't see how a hear pump will work for flats and I'm certainly not prepared to pay thousands to change when I have a perfectly good new boiler.

I already do 3, 4, and 6, and am well on the way to doing 2.

No car would be tough. I live on the edge of a small town and we have a shit bus service (every 90 minutes, between 8.30 am and 5.30pm, Mon-Sat). I have arthritis and can't walk far, so would be effectively housebound outside those times. I do well below 5,000 miles a year, even though I have to drive for work, and my car is 21 years old.

Actually, I couldn't get rid of my car until I can afford to retire, I'm an essential car user and have to provide my own.

Never had kids though, so that's a plus, and I haven't flown since 1998.

@HopingForMyRainbowBaby

No to plant diet. It made me really poorly last time I did it.

Already do 2-3 and 4

I went vegan for 2 weeks when I went away with a vegan friend.

Apart from the fact it made me feel like shit, gave me terrible headaches and spots, I'm convinced that any environmental benefits were outweighed by the amount of methane emitted via my arse.

I find it really odd that on MN being vegetarian is so often equated with eating avocados or food not produced in the UK. I am vegetarian- though not for environmental reasons- and I never eat avocados. There is so much else to eat that is produced in the UK.

JanisMoplin

I find it really odd that on MN being vegetarian is so often equated with eating avocados or food not produced in the UK. I am vegetarian- though not for environmental reasons- and I never eat avocados. There is so much else to eat that is produced in the UK.“

Agree. Mum’s been veggie for over 40 years: don’t think she’s ever bought an avocado

Yeah I am veggie (27 years) and do not have soya replacements at all or avocados, tbh most of my food is uk when I am not on a shake meal replacement diet.

@Trainbear

Is invading Ukraine with electric tanks ok?

I'd say that running out of fuel helps to limit tailpipe emissions. Using antiquated Soviet kit will save some on manufacturing. All in all though, wars are pretty damaging, the Iraq war resulted in around 400 million tonnes of CO2e.

[quote LadyinRead]Apparently if all indivisuals do these six things, we'll be 25% of the way to stopping global warming.
Are we doomed, then? I do most of these but (3) is impossible as appliances aren't built to last that long, and (4) would probably mean never seeing my parents again.

1. Eat a largely plant-based diet, with healthy portions and no waste

2. Buy no more than three new items of clothing per year. (Unlimited second-hand clothing allowed.)

1. Keep electrical products for at least seven years

1. Take no more than one short haul flight every three years and one long haul flight every eight years

1. Get rid of personal motor vehicles

6. Make at least one life shift to nudge the system, like moving to a green energy, insulating your home or changing pension supplier

www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/07/six-key-lifestyle-changes-can-help-avert-the-climate-crisis-study-finds?fbclid=IwAR2llmcsBWVwzzdF0kzuW2tVPAnUbrMUn2hatbfIsrUQ1Awi1EI5XSe1lF0[/quote]
How do we explain global warming before the rise of humanity ?

I already do most of the things on that list. I read somewhere that the single biggest impact choice people can make to reduce their carbon footprint is have less/no children.

But to be honest, none of it matters while governments fail to make the commitments to reducing fossil fuel emissions. Do people really believe that not buying a new hoover and buying second hand clothes is going to make a blind bit of difference while we're still pumping oil and gas out of the ground to burn?

I. We've cut the amount of meat we consume. All the meat and dairy I do buy comes from local farms. Leftovers tend to turn up as lunch the following day.

1. I hate clothes shopping and most of my clothes are second hand and have been since my teens. It's harder to find second hand for my kids, especially at the speed they outgrow things. However I pass everything they outgrow to friends/charity shops.
2. We only replace electrical appliances when they break. My fridge, dishwasher, washing machine and dryer are almost 9 years old. Our previous TV was 11 years old when it broke during lockdown.
3. Haven't flown in a while. However we will probably be aiming for one short haul every year plus longhaul every two to three years (have family in Canada and New Zealand).
4. Not a chance. We live rurally and the public transport is non existent. If we lived in a city, we'd probably manage without. I walk most local journeys though unless it's pouring with rain.
5. Dh is looking at heat pumps and insulation.

And a genuine renewable tariff will have an independently audited "renewable energy certificate" and the company will not be allowed to sell more renewable than it buys. This is Scope 2 and creates a market for renewable energy.

Again though, that's just an accounting thing, there is no separate renewables grid, we're all on the National Grid and will get power from whatever is generating. The fact remains that whatever tariff you're on, flicking that light switch or plugging in an electric car will have caused a gas valve in a power station to open slightly, even if it is by proxy - your "renewable tariff" is using (for accounting purposes) wind power someone else would otherwise have used, and they're now on gas.

Obviously if turning on that light or running your car is absolutely necessary then so be it, but don't be tempted to switch on a hot tub while telling yourself that it's OK because it's renewable.

I'm not telling you that you shouldn't be on a renewables tariff (I'm on one too, remember). Just that it's not to be used as an excuse for excessive usage, in the same way that frequent fliers should not "offset" their way out of the damage they do in order to avoid actually changing their lifestyle. www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/the-biggest-problem-with-carbon-offsetting-is-that-it-doesnt-really-work/

Not that any of us can financially afford to be frivolous with energy at the moment.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

The 80% of society who live in urban areas need to move towards using bikes and public transport for most of their journeys, hiring vehicles for the odd occasions when you can't avoid motoring (moving house, or making a journey of more than 10 miles before the first train in the morning for example

I work 4 miles from home. Driving takes me 15-20 minutes, public transport over an hour. I've thought about cycling but I have two choices of route, neither of which are safe. I'm not spending longer commuting and I'm certainly not putting myself at risk.

Public transport needs to be improved (although I'd still rather ride a bike than use it) and road surfaces and lighting need to be improved.

Let me guess, the reason that your two potential routes aren't safe is down to traffic, isn't it? That's another reason I'd be glad to see the back of mass car ownership.

1. Getting there...I buy 1 joint at the weekend which does 2/3 meals but the rest of the week is plant based.

1. I probably buy more than 3 new items, but not much more. Maybe 5-7?

1. I would do if they lasted 7 years but 3 years seems to be max for phones. Laptops done 8 so far but on its way out.

1. Already done.

1. I own a second hand electric, but couldn't manage without in our area.

1. Already do. Green energy, solar panels, as zero waste as we can be and constantly making improvements.