Vegans!!

[littlemissgrumpi]

I have a friend I've known for years and years. She's great, but the following is recently seriously getting on my nerves:

Myself and DH are regular half marathoners / love exercise / athletic builds / no health conditions / omnivores. We eat lots of veg, chicken and fish about twice a week, red meat about once a fortnight. Cow's milk in coffee and tea everyday. Pretty average. Said friend has always struggled with being overweight, not helped by the birth of her DD2 and is currently quite overweight and doesn't like to exercise. No judgement, each to their own. She's recently become vegan and is obsessed with telling me how worried she is for my health because I drink milk and eat red meat. It's almost laughable because I'm the fittest I've ever been & felt! I don't comment on her choice of vegan cakes etc so I really feel this is unreasonable.

The other day on a walk, she was huffing and puffing walking up the hill whilst telling me how unhealthy it is to be drinking cows milk and I really shouldn't have the beef burger for lunch. AIBU to think it's ridiculous??

I always hate the argument about not all vegan food being healthy. Not all food is healthy. Full stop. Before I went vegan, I wasn't eating copious amounts of cheese, ice cream and processed food because to me, they are treats. I don't sit there feeling all healthy with my coconut milk ice cream or plant based pizza - I'm enjoying a nice treat which is not from animal sources.

@RockinHorseShit

*Being vegan is not very unhealthy. This is myth perpetuated by people who are uncomfortable with animal suffering but still wish to consume animal products.&

No it isn't @5128gap, it's perpetuated by people who know about nutrition & have pious vegan friends who eat like shit, whilst preaching to the world about how healthy they are. Slowly making themselves I'll & then shouting MH & Nuro problems

I haven't eaten meat or poultry since I was 6 years old

Having pious vegan friends who eat like shit doesn't make a vegan diet very unhealthy. It makes their diet unhealthy. There are vegans who know a great deal about nutrition and eat very healthily. I genuinely don't understand the refusal to accept this. Its just the other side of the coin to what people accuse vegans of.

You misunderstood me @5128gap

I didn't say all vegans are ignorant about genuine good nutrition, but a lot are, as they are stuck on the idea that they can get everything from whole foods, when as biological Omnivores, they can't, they need to supplement with B12 at least.

I actually find the genuinely whole foods healthy vegans are sometimes worst for that as they don't eat processed foods either & it's processed foods that have added vitamins such as B12, calcium etc

As for B12, animals are often supplemented themselves now due to changes in farming methods.
And b12 deficiency is relatively common in humans.

@RockinHorseShit

There's not one single carnivorous trait in humans.

That is an extremely ignorant statement. We have 4 canine teeth just like carnivores 🙄

we also have incisors & molars just like herbivores, because we are omnivores that needs nutrition from both to stay healthy

Hippos have the biggest canines in the animal kingdom.

It's not a statement it's a fact FYI.

Oh dear & you wonder why Nouveau Vegans get such a bad name. So desperate to be right, they justify their stance with the most ridiculous arguments, when in reality they risk their own physical & mental health by being so stupidly closed minded & not educating themselves better 🥴

@RockinHorseShit

Oh dear & you wonder why Nouveau Vegans get such a bad name. So desperate to be right, they justify their stance with the most ridiculous arguments, when in reality they risk their own physical & mental health by being so stupidly closed minded & not educating themselves better 🥴

You haven't a clue what you're talking about. You can't argue against the facts so you've resorted to another dumb talking point which is also wrong.

If anyone should educate themselves better on this subject then I'm afraid it's you.

& for the record, hippo canines have pretty much the same role as tusks do for elephants... nothing at all to do with eating, at the size they are, common sense tells you they'd be pretty useless at that

Cough 😂😂😂😂😂

Oh &

Tbh I think that converting to any way of life is a bit like joining a cult. People become all absorbed and feel that everyone else around them should experience the euphoria they feel iyswim.

It’s the same with religion. Someone converts to a religion and then they preach to everyone they can about how God is good, and how they wish the person would only take God into their hearts and then they could be saved.

Same with veganism, the person becomes vegan and they feel self righteous about their choice and want to share it.

It’s absolutely true that not all vegans are like this. Equally not all Christians are like this. But the radical ares are the ones who shout the loudest, and because they do, people are led to believe that they’re all like it. ESP given that the ones who aren’t don’t feel the need to shout about the fact they’re just carrying on living their lives.

But your measly canines are perfect for tearing the flesh and hide of a cow?

It doesn’t matter what, whether it’s an ex-meat eater, ex-smoker, or someone whose given up alcohol or drugs, they will present with a holier than thou attitude. Ignore, it’s annoying, but I suspect she’ll be back on the bacon sarnies before too long.

People used tools @Carpy899, pre that they probably just ate smaller mammals & birds, fish, eggs.

Also B12 is essentially a type of bacteria, pre modern farming & over used soil, there was plenty. Unfortunately just like magnesium, & probably other nutrients, soil often no longer contains it in the amounts needed. Plus a lot of veg is grown in very sterile conditions these days. Our ancestors probably managed pretty well on a predominantly vegan diet, but archeology tells us they did eat meat, fish, seafood& eggs too. These days it just isn't possible to get much more than trace amounts from natural vegetarian food. Even the vegan society recognises that.

It doesn’t matter what, whether it’s an ex-meat eater, ex-smoker, or someone whose given up alcohol or drugs, they will present with a holier than thou attitude. Ignore, it’s annoying, but I suspect she’ll be back on the bacon sarnies before too long.

I love these twatty posts like these. 🤣

& I'm not being arsey for the sake of it. Unfortunately we know too well what vitamin deficiencies can do & we do eat a natural clean whole foods very healthy cooked from scratch diet.

My daughter ended up in a wheelchair at 12. She was brought up with a predominantly vegetarian, pescatarian diet & was lactose intolerant so couldn't have dairy. She wanted to become vegetarian at 9, so I supported that, not knowing she was already low in B12 & D, due to genetic defects with metabolising these vitamins. (I also took Ill after her birth & was originally diagnosed with M.E. for the same reason). We can't process B12 well, so need to eat a lot to get enough. DD becoming practically vegan at 9 meant her B12 stores depleted very quickly & she slowly & then very suddenly became very disabled, a wheelchair was a good day. It took us 2 years to get answers & treatment & thankfully B12 injections got her well & walking again (& help me a lot tooo)

Yes we were a higher risk due to genetics, but not topping up & then eating enough true B12 foods or taking a good supplement, puts everyone at risk, perhaps just not so quickly & as dramatically as it did for us.

Honestly read up on it & supplement for your own sake.

@toomanydogsandcats

I think I am the best type of vegan. Although Puritans would say I am not a vegan. Left to choice I don't eat animal products and don't eat meat. If invited out I eat what I am given if its meat stock, dairy in the food and when I am ill I have to have bovril and bone broth. I don't want to support the meat industry but know I won't change the world alone, I have shares in beyond meat and support plant based start ups. But life is too short to let it take over your life and even though the industy repulses me, there's no doubt that the odd bovril, oxo, butter and cream (not together) just makes food taste nicer.

Not trying to be a dick here but you're not actually a vegan, let alone then best type of vegan. Vegans don't eat animal products. No judgement and if you feel you "need" bovril when you're ill then fair enough but at least be honest with yourself

I'm an unhealthy vegan...I eat record amounts of cake and chocolate. Just tell her you'll agree to disagree and to button it. Nobody likes a preachy vegan and it's more likely to make you go and eat a steak!

@RockinHorseShit

There's not one single carnivorous trait in humans.

That is an extremely ignorant statement. We have 4 canine teeth just like carnivores 🙄

we also have incisors & molars just like herbivores, because we are omnivores that needs nutrition from both to stay healthy

As other posters have stated, canine teeth are a very poor indicator of an animal being carnivorous as loads of herbivorous animals (including camels and horses) have them. Additionally, our canines are much too weedy and poorly placed to do anything more than our flat incisors already do.

Carnassial molars and a lack of cheeks are better indicators of an animal being adapted to a primarily meat-based diet. Animals with these traits are able to consume entire carcasses using the full, crushing scissor-bite they possess; we would have no luck doing the same to a raw, unprocessed kill in the absence of tools and an adequate heat source to cook the meat.

Our ability to get nutrition from meat at all owes much more to our ingenuity with technology, tools, and cooking processes than it does our teeth.

@RockinHorseShit

& I'm not being arsey for the sake of it. Unfortunately we know too well what vitamin deficiencies can do & we do eat a natural clean whole foods very healthy cooked from scratch diet.

My daughter ended up in a wheelchair at 12. She was brought up with a predominantly vegetarian, pescatarian diet & was lactose intolerant so couldn't have dairy. She wanted to become vegetarian at 9, so I supported that, not knowing she was already low in B12 & D, due to genetic defects with metabolising these vitamins. (I also took Ill after her birth & was originally diagnosed with M.E. for the same reason). We can't process B12 well, so need to eat a lot to get enough. DD becoming practically vegan at 9 meant her B12 stores depleted very quickly & she slowly & then very suddenly became very disabled, a wheelchair was a good day. It took us 2 years to get answers & treatment & thankfully B12 injections got her well & walking again (& help me a lot tooo)

Yes we were a higher risk due to genetics, but not topping up & then eating enough true B12 foods or taking a good supplement, puts everyone at risk, perhaps just not so quickly & as dramatically as it did for us.

Honestly read up on it & supplement for your own sake.

I agree you can't over state the importance of B12 supplements. The vegans i know all take them, but im not sure its well enough publicised. I'm glad your DD was able to recover.

I'm a unhealthy vegan at the moment. I'm pregnant and eat a lot of crappy foods. Vegan does not equal healthy. Of course it can if done right, I felt amazing when eating the right foods.

I know a lot of vegans and we all take b12 supplements, most take a multivitamin designed for vegans. I can’t imagine there’s many vegans not aware of the need for it, theres so much easily accessible information out there.

Look at all us unhealthy vegans . My exercise is walking the dog, it'd be none existent if it wasn't for him. There are some truly healthy vegans too

I'm really pleased to hear that @5128gap, unfortunately I've known a few who don't & have become I'll as a result

@Migrainesbythedozen

YANBU and if I were you I would definitely make a comment about her health. Even an 'my husband and I aren't the ones struggling with our weight'.

I could not let her obliviousness and rudeness pass.

Please don't say this, it would be a horribly bitchy comment.