To ask if anyone had a bad birth experience despite using hypnobirthing techniques?

[Movingsoon21]

I'm due to have my first child in a few weeks and I've been reading a lot of confusing/conflicting papers and statistics when trying to work out the best options for my birth preferences. None seem to reference specific factors of vaginal deliveries that lead to forceps delivery, which I really want to avoid.

I'm lucky to have a low risk pregnancy, am early 30s and generally fit and healthy. This profile leads the midwives to guide me to a vaginal delivery in an MLU, which sounds like it can be a great experience, especially when coupled with hypnobirthing techniques (e.g. using the BRAIN system for decision-making, using up/down breathing for coping with contractions and pushing, focusing on things that will increase oxytocin and reduce adrenalin etc). I have some friends who have had brilliant experiences in these circumstances.

However, I also have a number of friends who have ended up with traumatic vaginal deliveries, ending with forceps/EMCS and lasting internal damage. I haven't asked them whether they tried to use hypnobirthing techniques as I don't want to pry or potentially upset them, but I'm pretty sure at least some of them didn't.

I was therefore just wondering, as I can't find any studies on this, how much the hypnobirthing techniques actually help to move you into the "good outcome" vaginal delivery group (assuming you are otherwise low risk), or whether it's really all down to luck?

Did anyone on here with a low risk pregnancy follow hypnobirthing and still end up with a bad birth experience/bad post-natal recovery outcomes such as third/fourth degree tears or incontinence? TIA.

I prepared with hypnobirthing CDs both times.
Birth 1: 40 hours of contractions, 13 hours in hospital, 2 hours pushing a back to back baby ending in EMCS. Hypnobirthing couldn't change the outcome but it did help a lot for much of the labour and working with the rythums of the contractions particularly when desperate for pain relief and stuck in a waiting room for an hour waiting for a bed over 24 hours after labour was first confirmed. It did end up being a traumatic birth with the situation unravelling, being locked in with the pain from pethadine, and overworked HCPs not explaining what was going on and their responses.

Birth 2: naturally anxious for some reason... used hypnobirthing again. Also had the wonders of the birthing track on MP3 playing on loop in the labour room. Much shorter labour which helped a lot, but he was also back to back. Due to VBAC we ended up rushed to theatre again and a rather rough forceps birth won over a rather rough EMCS. Had a lovely, communucative, supportive mid-wife who helped my SPD ridden body into a decent, comfortable position over a birthing ball (rather than beached up on my back crushed under my own weight as before).
Although not an ideal ending again, it was actually a calm, mentally positive birth and resolved a lot of mental baggage.
In recovery after, the MW asked me what the MP3 was and said it really helped keep her calm

So yes, despite two rough births, I'd still recommend it as a mental approach to coping. It doesn't cost much to try.

The wider benefits were that the tracks were great relaxation naps in pregnancy, and the breathing method helped with C25k when I was getting fit 6 months later

I had a traumatic birth experience and did hypnobirthing. Firstly I'd say everyone's idea of trauma is individual. I found hynobirthing great during the earlier part of my labour and despite her being back to back and the covid issues so I was alone for 3 hours in early assessment I coped pretty well using the technique. However I still didn't have the labour I wished for ultimately and she was delivered by forceps in theatre, where I then had a haemorrhage. (It was in theatre as I needed an epidural as they thought I may have to have a c section, luckily forceps worked).

I was just turned 31, very healthy pregnancy and generally fit and healthy. At the time I was really upset that I felt I'd been sold a lie and I genuinely felt if I did hypnobirthing it would all work out how I hoped but that's not real life. I'm glad I was flexible with my birth plan and my husband was a great advocate for me. The midwives were lovely as well and really wanted to give me the birth I wanted but in hindsight they probably allowed me to try longer than was preferable to accommodate that wish.

I did hypnobirthing but found it went out the window once labour started- nothing can really prepare you for the experience in my opinion. Having said that, in hindsight I was very happy with how my birth went.

I, like you, was terrified of a forceps delivery and had written on my birth plan in capitals ‘NO FORCEPS’ (unless life or death situation). I laugh now because I had also written on my birth plan (which I never actually handed to anyone on the day because I laboured so fast!) that I didn’t want an epidural and I didn’t want to labour on my back… well you can guess what happened!

When it came down to it, I was in so much pain I was begging for an epidural and all I could do was lie on my back. As it happened, labouring on my back was absolutely fine- no intervention needed and a very quick labour. So don’t necessarily worry too much about what position you end up in- what’s right for someone else may not be right for you. Your body will know what position you want to be in when it comes to it.

I spent weeks of my pregnancy worrying about the birth and in the end I was lucky and it was over in a couple of hours. I will probably be anxious again the next time and I do feel for you, but there’s really nothing you can do to control what happens.

Part of my work is resolving birth trauma. The worst case I ever saw had a physically perfect birth but was traumatised by how she was spoken to and dismissed. Hypnobirthing is a great tool for managing pain. Having a doula is the best way to prevent being traumatised by medical staff treating you badly. You can have an objectively awful birth and be okay. Good luck.

@EvilEdna1

Factors related to increased use of forceps in first time mums: *Positioning - stay mobile and use upright positions such as standing, squatting, kneeling, using birth ball etc. Try to avoid recumbent or semi recumbent. *Try and avoid or delay epidural or ask for it be turned down/off in second stage. *Luck

Hypnobirthing can help with avoiding epidural but can't help with luck element.

On any of these threads, there is always some misinformation about epidurals.

There is NO evidence that modern epidurals, as they are given in any hospital in the U.K. these days, increase the risk of forceps or ventouse delivery.

www.cochrane.org/CD000331/PREG_epidurals-pain-relief-labour

There are places (some Canadian provinces for instance, where they have an NHS system), where epidurals are given to virtually all women, and forceps and ventouse births are virtually non existent.

There is very little reason to avoid epidurals. I had my first born in a birthing pool without pain relief, and got PTSD. I fought for an epidural with my second, and it made all the difference in the world.

If I were a first time mum to be, instead of learning hypnobirthing, I would learn techniques for advocating for pain relief and not get fobbed off by midwives when I’m scared and in pain. I would learn about the NICE guidelines and be ready to quote Cochrane reviews.

@USaYwHatNow

Hi, midwife here! Hypno birthing is amazing for staying calm, collected and in control. I've seen it used really well for women to enable them to stay grounded and focused, and prior to starting the hypno birthing I tend to have a conversation with women so we can work out how I can communicate with them whilst they're 'under' their self guided hypnosis e.g. a gentle touch on the hand means I'm about to do your observations, or a gentle hand on your shoulder means I'm about to listen to your baby's heartbeat.

I have been in many situations where hypno birthing has been used with the best intentions, but later became annoying with one woman chucking her headphones at me screaming at me to turn the music off (we laughed about it later).

Hypnobrthing when used well may lower your adrenaline and other stress hormones which if released in high levels can stall labour. It can help reduce the type of pain relief you need e.g. Epidural which in some women can mean they're more likely to have a forcep delivery.

Birth is unpredictable and cannot be planned and I really don't buy into birth plans. Preferences of course but I really believe that planning a birth can lead to upset and a misguided feeling of failure when that is really not the case.

It's unlikely that hypno birthing will mean you completely avoid the circumstances you described in your OP,but I have seen it deployed by women when they're on the operating table for a section or whilst they're having a forceps delivery to help them stay calm and focused

Why are you peddling completely outdated views on epidurals leading to more forceps deliveries? There is no evidence of this being the case for nearly 20 years.

www.cochrane.org/CD000331/PREG_epidurals-pain-relief-labour

So typical of midwives to think of pain relief as something that must be avoided at all costs. The brainwashing in that profession (and lack of keeping up to date with science) is really worrying. One only had to look at the devastating impact of the so-called “natural/normal birth” propaganda on patient outcome.

Hi OP, not sure if this is what you’re looking for but I had practised hypnobirthing techniques throughout my pregnancy - was very smug during the first stage of labour doing my breathing feeling like an earth goddess. Then they broke my waters and I transitioned super fast (didn’t realise at the time!) it was a straightforward labour with no problems but the breathing went out of the window and I decided straight away I wanted an epidural, which I didn’t get to have as labour ended up being so quick.
I’d say in my personal experience the breathing is fantastic for the early stages of labour. I’m sure there’s a lot of people who “breathed their baby out” and all that jazz but I certainly wasn’t one of them! It is very calming initially.

Also I had been dead set on having a water birth/failing that on all fours naked so I could have skin to skin straight away. Adamant I didn’t want to be on my back.
Of course I laboured on my back, gown and bra still on and it was absolutely fine - it wasn’t at all the birth I imagined but it was great.

I have had 3 boys, 2 when I was under 24 and last one when I was 36 - 23 years ago — personally I am beyond the ‘breathe it all away’ kind of stuff— I found what worked best was maximum meds and an epidural — and if I could have had a c section, I would have opted for that. We all have different experiences, I was induced every single time for instance and whilst the first one was the hardest, they were all not my favourite experiences in life.

Hypnobirthing will not negate complications. It may assist you in coping with birth however you deliver but it won’t stop you needing a section or any other intervention.

You’d be better to stop chasing an ‘amazing’ experience and hope for a safe and positive one.

Women who give birth fall into distinct categories I find in my completely non-scientific opinion:

Women whose bodies ‘get it’ and behave properly, have complication-free labours and quick recoveries.

Women whose bodies resist and don’t seem to know what to do and need interventions and have complicated shit to deal with (mine is this type - pre-eclampsia, SPD, massive babies, body refusing to labour etc). We’d probably not be here without medical science.

Women who are a bit unlucky but have a largely complication-free time and a fairly standard birth with a little intervention (augmentation, a few stitches etc).

Most in my experience are the last category.

I found it useful during my first birth - it really helped me stay in control. It all went to shit with my second; my labour was less than two hours and was basically just one long contraction. I just couldn't get a handle on it because there were no breaks. Hypnobirthing can be useful but you have to have a lot of other things going in your favour to make it work well.

My sister - perfect BMI, under 30, low risk, did all the yoga and hynobirthing, birth pool, MLU - ended up with a traumatic instrumental delivery.

Me - geriatric pregnancy, early induction for GD, epidural - lovely, calm, easy vaginal delivery.

Luck of the draw e.g. baby’s position has way more to do with it than hypnobirthing. That doesn’t mean don’t do it - everyone I know who’s done it was positive about how it helped them stay calm. But have realistic expectations. It’s not going to be the driving factor in how your birth goes.

I wasn't low risk, so not quite what you are asking, but did do hypnobirthing and it left me feeling like I'd failed because I had to have most of the interventions inder the sun but apparently "my body is built to birth my baby" or "my surges can't be stronger than me because they are me". My body and my baby both disagreed with this, my body is not built to birth children, it does a very poor job of it That said I did manage to remain remarkably calm during the traumatic aftermath which was commented on several times, so maybe it did help in that way? I put a huge deal of pressure on myself with it so I think if you can avoid that, it will help. One of my best friends did it and had a lovely calm waterbirth and she was low risk.

I hypnobirthed and had 2 lovely, straight forward births with no complications, despite being inductions. I don’t think it will stop complications but it does promise to keep you in a calm headspace so that you can cope with scenarios better if they arise without panicking.

I had my first baby 4 months ago. I didn't give a shit how she got out, only that she got here safe with minimal damage to me lol, that was my birth plan. So I was fine with a c section if that was what was recommended. I did all the hypo birthing and was to be induced. The induction failed and I opted to have a ELCS 2 days later rather than proceed as I was told there was a high chance of it ending in EMCS.

I found the breathing excersises helped me during getting the balloon catheter in as part of the induction. I was offered gas and air but refused and just did the breathing exercises. It took 2 midwives to get the balloon in as my cervix was shut tight and I was told I had a very high pain threshold. I think the excersises helped me feel as though I was in control of a situation which was very much out of my control.

Obviously I didn't do vaginal birth so I can't comment on that. I had an ELCS which went like a dream, I think the NHS try to talk you out of it mainly because of the expense but my neighbour is an obstetrician and she paid private to have an ELCS, says it all really. As for the hypno birthing I'd certainly recommend the breathing techniques and midwives said it makes all the difference but whether it can help avoid intervention I really don't know.

Good luck with your baby, I was where you are a couple of months ago so I get your anxieties! I was freaking out and I really needn't have! You'll be grand.

There is an excellent reason why Hypno Surgery isn’t a thing

I actually think this has been done. Not routinely though obviously and I assume needs a lot more practice than listening to the odd tape. Amazing though!

I did use it (sort of) and think it helped me to a degree to stay calm and handle the pain better. I was at home so could not have epidural etc and I didn’t want pain relief (being ‘out of it’ is a fear of mine).

But if there had been a ‘mechanical issue’ I’m sure it would not have made a difference to that.

I was 22 when I had my son, got cut front to back and had a fourth degree tear and forceps delivery, I wasn’t high risk however I did stay really calm throughout and concentrated on my breathing which helped 🙂

Hypnobirthing gives you techniques to help you understand what is happening and tools to cope with each stage of labour, and it's great for your birth partner also learning these tools and being able to have their own role and support you tangibly in the process. But I don't think it has an impact on your likelihood of needing intervention.

Fwiw I did Hypnobirthing and wanted a lovely pain free water birth in mlu surrounded by music and fairy lights. I ended up with an emergency c section and a chat with an aneisthatist called Neil. Honestly the c section was great though.

I agree with most of the others - it’s helpful to a degree but doesn’t change reality. State of mind can help you feel in control but doesn’t change your body and birth circumstances.

Baby 1 - 38 hour Labour, pain made me vomit, got dehydrated, into hospital for a drip, awful midwife made me push for two hours but I wasn’t fully dilated (anterior lip?!) so nothing happened, she kept telling me I was pushing wrong, consultant called, problem identified, I was exhausted and clearly had a long way to go, midwife replaced, asked for an epidural, epidural put in the wrong place so only worked on half my body which was so much worse than pain all over as I was now flat on my back, attempt at ventouse, failed, forceps delivery, 12 People in the room all being hideously patronising, include baby recuss team - honestly, after about hour 8, no amount of hypobirthing could have helped me because it ceased be to about my body and my baby and was only about what the medical staff decided.

Baby 2 - home birth, in a pool in my house, dark, calm, in the zone, with two wonderful midwives who were only focused on me, still 15 hour Labour as my cervix is tilted (though only found this out because I talked to the nurses during my smear tests), had a wee bit of gas and air in the final stages, natural delivery on my sofa in my living room

Hypobirthing helped me to sleep during both pregnancies, but if I had to say what the factors were that made my second birth better:
My body understood the pain and so it wasn’t such a shock
DP felt in control so could help me with everything (and he ate, and drank, and didn’t panic which he did first time)
I said where, how and who would be at the birth
I knew that I could say no to medical professionals, I understood they there are other factors other than risk to me or the baby which influence their behaviour
I knew my midwives, home birth team of four, I met all of them, I had a chance to request notes from first delivery and talk through them, we made contingency plans - not a birth plan, I.e. if I’m sick again and need a drip, I would go into hospital but could then come home again when rehydrated
Midwives were fantastic people who had chosen to be on the home birth team and really made it happen
I had a tens machine for the first part of Labour until I got in to pool - I don’t think it actually helped with the pain, but it really helped with control - I pressed a button and the tingling sensation ‘pushed back’ at the pain so my body didn’t have to and I relaxed more.

I know a big part of hypobirthing is focusing on the fact that your body is capable and things will go well, so insulting yourself from negative birth stories, but I think that wasn’t helpful to me, NCT, Ina May Gaskin paint these dream scenarios so I was so shocked that I couldn’t control the pain, I think that made it worse. And afterwards, I spent years feeling inadequate and like I had failed.

I don’t know if that helps at all

Tried hypnobirthing with my first. Ended up with meconium in the waters, not displaying past 3cm, baby in distress and an emergency c section. 2nd baby I didn't use it. Had forceps delivery. The breathing techniques are good, but like everyone says, they don't change intervention that is necessary.

I did a hypnobirthing course but it all went out the window because for some reason I have terrible back labour in all my births that is so unbelievably painful it literally takes the wind out of me. My first two births were so painful I couldn't even manage the breathing the pain was so intense. With my third and final birth even though it was back labour my waters remained intact until baby was minutes away from being born. It was mid lockdown Easter weekend and I wasn't allowed my husband in and had been put in a side room on my own with g&a and forgotten about and this was the only birth I felt I could stay calm and breath through the contractions until the end. I chalk it down to the waters not breaking/broken. With my other two births the waters went or were broken and the lack of waters combined with back pain was just a terrible combination. You can know all the hypnobirthing techniques buy if circumstances aren't right you can't always apply them.

Ready assured the opposite is possible - I had a fantastic birth with no preparation or 'hypnobirthing' - all due to chance. Nothing I did.

Hypnobirthing absolutely helped me stay calm and positive, despite having an emergency c section in the end. You’re not really in control of the outcome, but I feel really positive about the birth – great memories of it in fact! Just don’t fall into the trap of feeling like you have to do it all “naturally”. Gas and air was the best thing that’s ever happened to me(!).

Yep, my first two deliveries were pretty awful despite using hypnobirthing techniques. It doesn’t prevent you having back to back contractions or requiring medical intervention.

It’s money making snake oil that preys on women’s insecurities IMO.

After an extremely painful and rapid Labour that ended in EMCS due to DC being breech, I was left with a huge sense of failure, despite the section being the most positive part of the birth, with a fab medical team. Turns out if you spend months repeating drivel like “my body is strong and capable of a gentle birth” and you wind up with interventions, it’s a complete headfuck, even when those interventions are life saving.