To think this isn't very nice ? ( Pro-life protestors)

[chattycaterpillar]

I am pregnant, 11 weeks, first pregnancy. Like all first time mother's, I am very worried about miscarriage.

Anyway, my booking appointment was changed to a phone appointment cos I had Covid at the time of the appointment. The midwife arranged for me to come in today, ( a week or so after isolation finished), so I could get my bloods/ Blood Pressure/ urine sample done etc.

The maternity centre is based in a community hospital that has a variety of NHS Community/ outpatient services attached, ( acute/ emergency treatments are at the main hospital across town). But the community hospital has maternity outpatients, mental health teams, counselling, STI testing, audiology, physiotherapy , dermatology services attached to it. It also has BPAS abortion clinic inside, ( which I didn't realise until this morning).

Anyway , a short distance from the hospital, when I was going in, there were about 8 signs with the most horrific images , ( very large), of dead foetus's etc. I had a leaflet thrust in my hand and the images, well for someone worrying about miscarriage, they were very upsetting.

AIBU to say whilst I understand termination is a controversial issue, it's completely out of order to force these images on members of the public ?

The midwife who did my bloods etc said I wasn't the first person who'd been upset by it, and that there was also a recurrent miscarriage clinic being run at the hospital so she imagined it would cause a lot of upset.

Never mind a vulnurable teenager or rape victim walking into the BPAS clinic being forced to see these images ?

I got talking to a lady in the waiting room who said she had experienced a stillbirth a few months before and found being confronted by these images incredibly distressing.

When I was miscarrying I saw these protesters at the hospital and I properly shouted at them. Grimy fuckers deserved it. They can't be that pro-life if they don't think about the adults going into the hospital potentially about to receive devastating news.

www.bpas.org/abortion-care/abortion-treatments/the-abortion-pill/abortion-pill-from-10-weeks-to-24-weeks/

www.bpas.org/abortion-care/abortion-treatments/the-abortion-pill/remote-treatment/

I also think you should read the guidance from BPAS, ( who specialise in abortion), before saying nothing involved in the process, ( pain, heavy bleeding, disposal of pregnancy remains, retained products), could cause trauma for women.

You can accept something should be legal and safe, whilst also thinking contraceptive education would be good to minimise the risk of women undertaking a treatment that involves, ( according to BPAS), heavy pain, bleeding and often the need for post treatment counselling.

I think I am taking the far more honest view, by saying lets acknowledge that whilst abortion should be provided with respect; lets not pretend it's not physically unpleasant and can cause trauma, and is therefore a good idea to provide contraceptive education to reduce unwanted pregnancy/ abortion.

A termination is a medical procedure. That’s why it needs to be provided legally. As we know otherwise women will have to resort to it illegally and lives are lost.

The OP is correct re the demonstrators. And also regarding how distressing it will be to women.

Abortion per se is not necessarily and I think we should not be afraid of saying so.

No-one is saying abortion can't be traumatic or physically unpleasant. But most women don't feel traumatised by it and feel it is no more physically unpleasant than a pap smear or a bad period depending on the type of abortion.

A woman getting an abortion is already pregnant, the only alternative in that situation is childbirth which is more traumatising and physically unpleasant by far!

There is plenty of education, information and resources about contraception. It is also accessible and free, even condoms you can get them free from lots of places. I'm not sure what else this country can realistically do! Every adult I know is fully aware of the methods of contraception available to them. People aren't getting abortions because they are uneducated about contraception.

I haven't had an abortion myself, but some of my friends have. All of them very intelligent women who know everything they need to know about contraception. But mistakes still happen, whether it be a contraceptive failure or a lapse in judgement, these things still happen. And they still bloody happened when abortion was illegal.

My sil had a tmfr. It was traumatic and it has led to permanent problems for her. This was completely unavoidable and being confronted with graphic pictures while out minding her own business shopping or on her way to the hospital is unforgivably evil behaviour.

There is nothing wrong with saying that reducing abortion is a good thing. It's not the same as saying that abortion should be conditional. It's only saying that it is a medical procedure (with the potential to go wrong, as all procedures can) and do if it is avoidable by preventing pregnancy another way, then that's good.

There are many medical procedures which can leave trauma behind and where the patient could benefit from post-procedure counselling. It's just abortion we get emotive about and treat differently. We should be examining why we have been conditioned to think like that, because it's nonsense.

I'm pro abortion but it is the ending of a potential human life and do while I totally agree with women's bodily autonomy being of paramount importance, I do also think that counselling should be available.
There are women who are absolutely certain they made the right decision but still have some feelings that don't quite reconcile with that knowledge and help should be available for that.

I do think counselling should be available for anyone who has suffered medical trauma. Idk but maybe the thinking is that where a patient has chosen a procedure rather than it being an absolute necessity to save their life, they might feel more responsibility for what they feel next rather than someone who didn't choose? Just guessing though

ImAvingOops I kind of see your point, but even in general surgery the matter is very often not black and white. It isn't 'I must have this surgery to save my life and there are no other choices' - a lot of the time there are treatment choices to be made, each with their own advantages and drawbacks. A post treatment debrief would be a good idea across the piece, not just for abortion, and that would go some way towards the view that abortion is somehow 'special' and different - which is the thing the forced birthers like to use in their propaganda.

The type of people protesting hate women, they have no business being near women at their most vulnerable.

I have had 2 second trimester TFMRs. Wanted, loved, named babies who were desperately ill. I dread to think of the effects on my mental health had I encountered these protesters on my way into hospital either time. My experience was incredibly traumatic because of the circumstances.

I've been called a murderer on here (whilst in a specific tfmr thread) . A lot of people are disgusted if women choose to terminate a pregnancy post 12 weeks regardless of the circumstances, usually because "by that point it looks like a baby" or because they couldn't do it, so don't think other women should be able to.

Anti choice, forced birthers don't care about women, pregnancies or babies. They just hate women.

Imagine any other context where people would protest other people's rights to attend standard medical care.

Anti-chemo protestors? I mean, stopping people dying of cancer is interfering with god's plan, yeah?
Protests outside the dermatology clinic - after all, God made the skin you're in and everything god does is perfect, right?

The fact that NO OTHER type of healthcare is protested tells you that this is misogynistic bobbins. I'd also add that if you want to make a protest in this country, you tend to go where the lawmakers are. Clue: that's not your local maternity services department.

I would add that many, if not most, cases of abortion regret are linked to women being forced into abortion either by their financial circumstances or by coercive control through a partner. These women exist and they deserve our support. Their existence in no way proves that abortion is a 'bad' thing though.

Protesting is one thing, but a month after I had experienced a late miscarriage I had one of these awful leaflets shoved through my door.

I was extremely distressed and telephoned a number on the leaflet, to tell them it was unacceptable to put this through peoples letterboxes. I was talking to deaf ears!

@nocheesegromit, 'I've been called a murderer on here (whilst in a specific tfmr thread) .'
I'm almost lost for words at this. I'm not responsible for it, but I'm sorry it happened to you nevertheless.

It's fucking disgusting. Anybody who does that is way way worse in terms of morals than somebody who aborts for whatever reason.

[quote vipersnest1]@nocheesegromit, 'I've been called a murderer on here (whilst in a specific tfmr thread) .'
I'm almost lost for words at this. I'm not responsible for it, but I'm sorry it happened to you nevertheless. [/quote]
Thank you for your kindness. I was shocked at the time but deep in the initial raw grief so it didn't really register. I'll never forget it though.

The poster called me a murderer, and told me I was incredibly selfish, and that I didn't deserve to be a mother if I couldn't put someone else before myself. She knew what it was like you see, because her daughter has mild learning difficulties. My babies spines were open, their brains were being pulled into their necks and the chances of them making it to birth live were slim. They would have suffered and been in pain, not understanding what pain was, but feeling it, until they died, which was more or less a guarantee before they'd ever have left the hospital.

But it showed me that there are people who are completely unable to understand the experience of others and give compassion, or even have the ability to keep their mouths shut and not share their opinion and judgements.

Regardless, that shouldn't be happening.

I had a termination when i was 17 and there was a group like this outside the clinic when I arrived. It was fucking awful - like you already don't feel guilty enough. The images were so graphic but also the lady inside the clinic said the images were actually of 24ish week babies but had been labelled 6-8 week to make it seems so much worse

I don't even understand why someone would take a picture of an aborted baby and to then share that image. It's sickening. I'm sorry you had to go through that. The mind just boggles sometimes at peoples rationale.

@Tothemoonandbackx

I don't even understand why someone would take a picture of an aborted baby and to then share that image. It's sickening. I'm sorry you had to go through that. The mind just boggles sometimes at peoples rationale.

Because they're misogynistic shits.

@nocheesegromit that is just horrendous. Where is the empathy ???

However, in light of it being international women's day, I would say that I find both extreme ends of the scale to be misogynistic.

Harassing distressed women outside clinics and trying to ban abortion/ have it removed from the NHS is clearly wrong; a it could cause women to be forced to continue pregnancies in situations which could be greatly dangerous to either their physical or mental health. Abortion should absolutely be provided in clean, safe conditions as an NHS treatment.

However the attitude that "women shouldn't make a fuss, it's just like a heavy period/ smear test," is also misogynistic. You only need to look at the multiple termination regret threads on Mumsnet, to see many, many more women are traumatised by abortion than a heavy period/ smear test. It smacks into the "she should just think of me and get rid of it," attitude that comes from so many men these days, who think women who do not want an abortion are being unfair and mean "cos it's just like taking some pills," "or just like a period innit," ( and the guidance from BPAS, makes it very clear that aside from very, very early gestations, it is not "just like a period.") It is misogynistic to paly down the fact that, often, abortion can be physically and mentally distressing for women; particularly as many men believe they should be able to demand unprotected sex with women, ( it feels nicer), and then demand the women undergoes an abortion , as "it's really not a big deal."

And yes, absolutely, I think better contraceptive access to reduce the amount of women undergoing a physically and mentally distressing experience is a good thing.