To appeal this driving ban?

[GaiusHelenMohiam]

Around ten years ago I was very ill, later diagnosed with bipolar, I attempted suicide more than once. I surrendered my driving license.

After about four years I was stable, right meds, right lifestyle, working and all going well. So I reapplied and got my license back. I’ve then had to reapply every year, always successfully.

While in the throes of my illness I struggled a fair bit with alcohol and asked my GP for help. I attended a group for a couple of months, and left the group with the coordinators blessing after a progress review, she said I wasn’t really suited to it as it was aimed at dependent drinkers whereas I was a binge drinker.

This means that I have to have a blood test for my license. It’s always a bit insulting because literally all the literature that comes with the appointment is aimed at High Risk Offenders who drink drive.

I’ve never changed my drinking habits before the test and have always had moderate results.

Anyway Covid delays have meant my reapplication took nearly a year this time (I’ve been allowed to drive while waiting) and I went for my blood test last month.

The results came this morning, again moderate. But the letter says as I have a ‘history of alcohol dependency’ I am banned from driving for a year and have to be abstinent for a year before I can reapply.

What the fuck? Does anyone know if this is worth appealing? I’m not and have never been alcohol dependent, I think there is a mistake in my medical records. I have had my license renewed every year for the past six with no issues at all and this is the first time ‘alcohol dependence’ has been mentioned. They’ve never said I need to be abstinent, just not in the red zone.

I’m kicking myself for not abstaining for a month before the test tbh. But it’s always been fine. I’m fucked without my car, I work more than full time and finish very late, no public transport.

Does anyone know what my chances are of appealing?

I understand why you are frustrated, the country is full of middle-class functional alcoholics with driving licences. It does seem unfair that you are subject to extra scrutiny because you have a mental illness. And I know how it feels to be trying to build a normal life with a mental illness, and to find the odds stacked against you.

In your position, though, I would just give up alcohol altogether. It won't help your mental health or your physical health in the long-term, and getting rid of it would be one less difficulty to deal with.

Revoking your licence in these circumstances is hardly rewarding you for responsible behaviour, is it?

But her blood results are consistently in the "amber" category which is obviously worrisome for the testing people.

She may have done a good thing by getting help, but that doesn't mean she should automatically be allowed to drive.

Definitely appeal and ask your GP to back you up. He/she can write a letter that you can send to DVLA in your support.

@GaiusHelenMohiam

I’m having a very shitty stressful time at work, think 60hr weeks and no staff. Some days the only thing that got me through a 16hr shift was the thought of a lovely cold glass of wine afterwards.

OP, without wishing to sound unkind, do you truly not realise you have a problem or are you thinking the problem isn't as big as the authorities are saying?

It's not normal to be thinking about alcohol in the way you're describing it, and your drinking is clearly excessive for the results to show up what they are showing.

If things were normal you wouldn't be kicking yourself for not modifying your behaviour to get around the test, because you simply wouldn't need to.

I hope you're in a better place soon.

I do feel for you but I’d put my efforts into quitting and trying to sort alternative transport.

Creeping addiction from self medication is quite a well known thing. Get yourself some decent support.

If everything in the OP is true then this feels incredibly unfair.

The problem is you went along with the annual testing and didn’t object to that at the very beginning.

I would appeal and see what happens but agree with those above who say the information on the link appears to suggest you have no grounds.

@YisforWanky

OP, you're asking in the wrong place. MN is weird about alcohol, and there are a lot of people on here who believe you should not drive, ever, even if your entire annual alcohol consumption is half a thimble of sherry at Christmas. It's also pretty horrible for someone upthread to assume you have been a drink-driver with no evidence whatsoever to support this assumption.

I am absolutely anti drink-driving, btw. I would appeal and see what happens.

This. The attitude to alcohol on MN is bonkers.

It's the equivalent of a bottle of wine every single day.

Or three bottles 2/3 times a week.

It's not a thimble of sherry

I say this with kindness as a recovering alcoholic myself.

Youre in denial about your dependency and relationship with alcohol.
It's not the frequency that you drink or necessarily the quantity it's the problems it causes you, the cost on your life rather than the cost on your pocket that is an indication of a problem in my experience of working with other alcoholics.
If its messing with your life its become a problem

@GaiusHelenMohiam

I am kicking myself for not abstaining, I could have done.

I’m having a very shitty stressful time at work, think 60hr weeks and no staff. Some days the only thing that got me through a 16hr shift was the thought of a lovely cold glass of wine afterwards. I’m an idiot.

I’ve always felt aggrieved at having to do the test and did consider querying why I had to but because it’s never been an issue I’ve just trotted along for my yearly test (or two yearly as it was this time).

That does sound as though you do need alcohol more than you're admitting to yourself. I'd have wanted to be in the second category if I didn't have a problem with alcohol personally.

@YisforWanky

OP, you're asking in the wrong place. MN is weird about alcohol, and there are a lot of people on here who believe you should not drive, ever, even if your entire annual alcohol consumption is half a thimble of sherry at Christmas. It's also pretty horrible for someone upthread to assume you have been a drink-driver with no evidence whatsoever to support this assumption.

I am absolutely anti drink-driving, btw. I would appeal and see what happens.

This has nothing to do with the MN attitude towards alcohol. It's the DVLA's attitude towards alcohol.

Some very helpful posters have pointed the OP in the direction of the testing information so she didn't ask in the wrong place at all.

@Dishwashersaurous

It's the equivalent of a bottle of wine every single day.

Or three bottles 2/3 times a week.

It's not a thimble of sherry

I hope all the “MN is weird about annual thimbles of sherry” weirdos are reading this.

@YisforWanky I don't think you have fully understood OPs situation. It is frustrating for her but is the situation she found herself in a few years ago. She knows what the tests are, she knows she has a propensity to rely on drink.

It is really not helping her to suggest that this is unfair or wrong. It is the situation she has been in for some time and it has only happened because of her actions. She has to deal with that, nothing else.

@GaiusHelenMohiam keep on being positive about this. Get as much additional support as you can. And yes, do look to see if a challenge would have any affect, or maybe reduce the ban to 6 months. But mostly don't let being angry about it stall your attempts to change your own behaviour.

@sadpapercourtesan

I understand why you are frustrated, the country is full of middle-class functional alcoholics with driving licences. It does seem unfair that you are subject to extra scrutiny because you have a mental illness. And I know how it feels to be trying to build a normal life with a mental illness, and to find the odds stacked against you.

In your position, though, I would just give up alcohol altogether. It won't help your mental health or your physical health in the long-term, and getting rid of it would be one less difficulty to deal with.

She's not under extra scrutiny because of her mental illness. She's under scrutiny because of her coping methods in the past - and potentially her current coping methods.

She's not tested annually because of disorder.

@GaiusHelenMohiam

Yeah my consumption has obviously crept up from last time. I’ve also lost more than three stone since my last test, I don’t know if that affects the amount of proteins? But regardless, I’m making some changes.

I have been under an intense amount of pressure at work since November, but as of this week several changes are in place which will make my life much much easier. So no more relying on a big glass of wine to unwind. I’ll have more time for a life outside of work.

Good luck op 🍀

The fact that all your previous tests show moderate use and you now are showing heavy use indicates a worsening pattern.
You need to be honest with yourself because those levels simply are not coming from one glass of wine a night.

You realise that you have to cut out alcohol for a month and can't even do that, so you are prioritising 1/2 bottle of wine a night plus binge at the weekend over your license.
Just stop. If you don't need it then it's not an issue.

(I'm 9 yrs clean from booze and pain killers, did AA etc and can soeak with experience)

It looks like you've finally realised you need to make changes. I'm glad. May I recommend Vitamin B complex to replace the wine for treating stress. Alcohol on top of the medicine you take for your disorder will be very hard on your system and is not essential for having a good time

This thread cannot be looked at in the usual way that alcohol use is because the poster has bipolar. Mania can be induced by alcohol it intensifies bi polar. I have a relative with bipolar they are completely teetotal.

So forget alcoholism and the debate about what it constitutes it’s that bipolar and alcohol should not be mixed.

@CharSiu

This thread cannot be looked at in the usual way that alcohol use is because the poster has bipolar. Mania can be induced by alcohol it intensifies bi polar. I have a relative with bipolar they are completely teetotal.

So forget alcoholism and the debate about what it constitutes it’s that bipolar and alcohol should not be mixed.

It's literally the level of alcohol OP's consuming - unrelated to the bipolar. The levels are too high for anyone with a history of alcohol misuse.

Look at your last few results- are the numbers increasing or decreasing? A slow but gradual increase, or even not decling, suggests things are NOT improving.

Look at the bigger picture

Whatever about the rights or wrongs of the OP's alcohol use, I hate the idea that people are punished for seeking help, whether it be for mental health or addiction issues.

I understand that’s a tempting way to look at it but if they say “We are going to regularly test you”, and OP says “okay” and submits to test and then she tests high, despite advance notice, what are they to conclude?

It’s not “seeking help” she’s been “punished” for, it’s having high alcohol levels.

The argument that “other people are drinking too much and getting away with it”, isn’t very encouraging for road safety is it?

@Needahug72

between 2.2% - 2.9% CDT are considered to be in the amber zone which is considered to be indicative of possible problematic alcohol consumption, this will trigger further enquiries before a decision to issue a driving licence is made.

It is worth noting that the medical standards of fitness to drive for medical professionals published by the DVLA [2] states that persistent alcohol misuse confirmed by medical enquiry and/or evidence of otherwise unexplained abnormal blood markers will result in refusal of a licence.

Above is from drink-driving.org looks to me like because all your tests have been in the moderate or amber range that is why your licence has been refused

That's without history of alcohol misuse. But with a history of misuse, 2.2 is the upper limit.

The bipolar diagnosis is also relevant. There's a much greater risk of becoming dependent on alcohol, and the effects of alcohol intensify the symptoms of bipolar disorder. If you take medication, the alcohol can interfere with it. Altogether, drinking and psychiatric diagnoses aren't a good combination.

The DVLA are a right pain in the arse sometimes (though like everyone who feels this way, I'll add a disclaimer that it's for a good reason, of course people who are unfit shouldn't be on the roads, I should feel privileged to be allowed to have a licence, etc. etc.). I always used to be on a 3-year licence, moved to a different area and different mental health team who must've described me differently, and I was shifted to a 1-year. Which expired halfway through 2020, so like others whose licence expired then, I got a COVID grace period such that validity was invisibly extended to halfway through 2021. So I sent in my renewal a while before it was due to expire for real, and just today have received a letter saying they're planning to finally get round to writing to my doctor. God only knows how long it'll be before I have a valid licence, or how long it'll be valid for. Expect long waits.