To appeal this driving ban?

[GaiusHelenMohiam]

Around ten years ago I was very ill, later diagnosed with bipolar, I attempted suicide more than once. I surrendered my driving license.

After about four years I was stable, right meds, right lifestyle, working and all going well. So I reapplied and got my license back. I’ve then had to reapply every year, always successfully.

While in the throes of my illness I struggled a fair bit with alcohol and asked my GP for help. I attended a group for a couple of months, and left the group with the coordinators blessing after a progress review, she said I wasn’t really suited to it as it was aimed at dependent drinkers whereas I was a binge drinker.

This means that I have to have a blood test for my license. It’s always a bit insulting because literally all the literature that comes with the appointment is aimed at High Risk Offenders who drink drive.

I’ve never changed my drinking habits before the test and have always had moderate results.

Anyway Covid delays have meant my reapplication took nearly a year this time (I’ve been allowed to drive while waiting) and I went for my blood test last month.

The results came this morning, again moderate. But the letter says as I have a ‘history of alcohol dependency’ I am banned from driving for a year and have to be abstinent for a year before I can reapply.

What the fuck? Does anyone know if this is worth appealing? I’m not and have never been alcohol dependent, I think there is a mistake in my medical records. I have had my license renewed every year for the past six with no issues at all and this is the first time ‘alcohol dependence’ has been mentioned. They’ve never said I need to be abstinent, just not in the red zone.

I’m kicking myself for not abstaining for a month before the test tbh. But it’s always been fine. I’m fucked without my car, I work more than full time and finish very late, no public transport.

Does anyone know what my chances are of appealing?

between 2.2% - 2.9% CDT are considered to be in the amber zone which is considered to be indicative of possible problematic alcohol consumption, this will trigger further enquiries before a decision to issue a driving licence is made.

It is worth noting that the medical standards of fitness to drive for medical professionals published by the DVLA [2] states that persistent alcohol misuse confirmed by medical enquiry and/or evidence of otherwise unexplained abnormal blood markers will result in refusal of a licence.

Above is from drink-driving.org looks to me like because all your tests have been in the moderate or amber range that is why your licence has been refused

It just seems ridiculous to me that I’m being penalised for absolutely no wrongdoing.

All because of a bipolar diagnosis.

I’m going to appeal the dependency thing and hope I can get my licence back in six months rather than a year.

@GaiusHelenMohiam

I’ve just checked my last results and they were 2.1.

So it might be that those extra .2 points have fucked me.

What a dick.

In the nicest possible way, it was the heavy drinking that fucked you.

You sound like every other addict-who-isn’t-an-addict. Minimising. I was like this with smoking for 15 years. I took it up just as everyone else was giving up and had the most dazzling array of justifications and minimisations that sound mad to me now. Every addict and every addiction works the same way.

This is a wake up call.

Yep... you've popped over the line with that last reading.

Do appeal but also take very careful notice of this. Only you can know if anything has changed and only you can do anything about it.

Best of luck working out how to stop being angry about it and starting to work through it.

Sorry, I know that sounds patronising but if I phrased it how I want to other pps would become very defensive on your behalf. MNHQ would probably delete me.

Basically: It's shit. Something has changed. You have to address that. Best of luck.

Please do appeal. You are not alcohol dependent. It's a ridiculous decision.

This website seems useful OP - it suggests anyone who has a history of ‘misuse’ can’t have a result over 2.2. Those with a history of ‘dependancy’ can’t have a result over 1.7

www.majlaw.co.uk/how-we-can-help-you/dvla/

@Bromse I think OP knows that there really is an issue. It doesn't help to stoutly defend her.

@GaiusHelenMohiam

It just seems ridiculous to me that I’m being penalised for absolutely no wrongdoing.

All because of a bipolar diagnosis.

I agree OP, and am shocked by some of these comments.

You surrendered your licence voluntarily when you were diagnosed (presumably because you didn't feel you were safe to drive at the time), you have fully cooperated with all testing requirements since, you have proactively sought support from your GP to help keep your alcohol issues under control and you don't drive after you have been drinking.

Revoking your licence in these circumstances is hardly rewarding you for responsible behaviour, is it?

Do you know what the appeals process is?

I was genuinely on your side til I saw your CDT score.

That measures alcohol intake over a longer period and not just a day or two.

Your score puts you very firmly in the red zone. And you probably should have been banned with your last score too.

The problem is OP that you’re in complete denial. You’re very believable, reading through your posts. But to get a score that’s persistently over 3.0 you are drinking heavily and constantly. It’s not just a glass of wine after work occasionally or the odd heavy night at a weekend.

I’m sorry you’ve lost your licence - it must have come as a shock. But you’re drinking more than you’ve admitted on here and while you don’t need to say anything to us, you need to start being honest with yourself. Maybe this will be the wake up call that you need.

Useful background info on the CDT values and DVLA www.drinkdriving.org/cdt-alcohol-test.php at 2.1 you were unknowingly on the threshold 2.2 put you over.

www.drinkdriving.org/dvla-medical.php#:~:text=A%20CDT%20level%20of%20less,and%20is%20compatible%20for%20licensing.&text=A%20CDT%20level%20between%202.3,of%20possible%20problematic%20alcohol%20consumption.

Long link but it says that for someone with a history of alcohol misuse, which you agree you have, that anything over 2.2 is not acceptable.

So I'm not sure on what grounds you'd appeal.

My score is nowhere near 3, have you misread?

@Lougle

www.drinkdriving.org/dvla-medical.php

Did you get sent the exact levels? You could use this page to see what level your results fall into and that might tell you whether they are treating you as an applicant who was previously dependent, misused, etc.

That link is interesting. It looks like they use a different test than they used to, which is more accurate. It also differentiates between alcohol dependence and alcohol misuse, which is where binge drinking would fall.

But I do accept that my score is too high and I don’t fit the criteria for a license.

I’m just upset because if I didn’t have bipolar this wouldn’t be an issue.

It's the alcohol misuse OP. The appeal won't be upheld based on @Lougle's link.

Sorry cross posted

It's obviously really frustrating but can you actually use this as a wake up call about the drinking.

I’ll be honest OP this statement was concerning

Some days the only thing that got me through a 16hr shift was the thought of a lovely cold glass of wine afterwards.

I’ve lost family members to alcoholism, they thought they weren’t drinking that much and at one point they wont have been they will have just been looking forward to that cold glass of wine and they weren’t aware when it slipped over that threshold. OP I mean this kindly, please cut down now. Death due to alcohol is never pretty

This advice is quite clear

How much alcohol will cause a high CDT level?
You need to drink the equivalent of 100-150g of alcohol per day to raise CDT levels. This equates to 5 pints of beer, a bottle of wine, or one-third of a bottle of spirits daily.

Intermittent or "binge" drinking can also raise CDT levels. This would have to be in the range of 200-300g of alcohol on two occasions per week (around double the above amount) and no alcohol on the other days. Just one day of excessive drinking with the other days of no alcohol would probably not be enough to raise CDT levels over a 7-14 day period.

Having a glass of wine a couple of times a week would not raise CDT levels

Yeah my consumption has obviously crept up from last time. I’ve also lost more than three stone since my last test, I don’t know if that affects the amount of proteins? But regardless, I’m making some changes.

I have been under an intense amount of pressure at work since November, but as of this week several changes are in place which will make my life much much easier. So no more relying on a big glass of wine to unwind. I’ll have more time for a life outside of work.

OP, you're asking in the wrong place. MN is weird about alcohol, and there are a lot of people on here who believe you should not drive, ever, even if your entire annual alcohol consumption is half a thimble of sherry at Christmas. It's also pretty horrible for someone upthread to assume you have been a drink-driver with no evidence whatsoever to support this assumption.

I am absolutely anti drink-driving, btw. I would appeal and see what happens.

Weight won't make any difference.

If you are honestly only having a glass a couple of times a week then you could have liver damage. In which case see your gp.

OP if you have lost your license for a year it looks like you’ve been classified as dependant rather than a misuser of alcohol
www.gov.uk/guidance/drug-or-alcohol-misuse-or-dependence-assessing-fitness-to-drive

Disclaimer- I am a problem drinker (currently dry) and my GP did advise me he would be obliged to notify the DVLA if I continued to binge drink. I’ve never drank under the influence / after a binge but it was part of the wake up call I needed. So you are being classed the same as if you had been caught driving intoxicated. I guess they are thinking prevention (of accidents) trumps freedom of choice to drink. In effect, you’ve “proved” you cannot go without alcohol as shown by your blood test so I doubt an appeal would be successful.