'Aid' lorries going to Ukraine...

[Blurp]

My Facebook timeline is suddenly full of requests from people who are filling lorries full of things to take to Ukraine - they're asking for donations of things like clothes, toiletries and food.

None of them seem to mention the name of a charity or any specifics - mostly it comes across as though some random bloke is just going to fill his lorry with stuff and drive it "to Ukraine".

At first I thought it was a great idea, but the more I read the more I'm questioning it. Not that I think the people doing it are dodgy or anything like that, more that I'm not sure how useful it would be.

Like, do they really need lorries turning up all over the place with random stuff inside? I've no doubt that much of the stuff would be useful, but how do they even start to sort through it and match it to people who need it? Where do they even go to drop it off - do they just pick a random road on the border and park there and give it out? I've seen a few people asking questions like this on the posts, but they tend to get ignored or shouted down.

As far as I'm aware, there are no issues with supply of goods to countries bordering Ukraine, so isn't it better to donate money to organisations already on the ground so that they can bulk buy what they need?

Again, I'm not knocking the people who organise these lorries or the people who donate to them; I'm just wondering how useful it really is.

www.thegoodshepherdcentre.org.uk/
There’s a convoy going from here on Friday. I have donated a few things that were on their list like paracetamol, calpol, hand sanitizer, wipes etc.
Also just made a donation to the Red Cross Ukraine appeal.

I asked my Polish friend yesterday how to help as her mum lives on the Ukrainian border and is in the midst of it. She said for now, donate to Polish or Ukrainian Red Cross so that’s what we are doing.

I know someone who runs a small charity who frequently take supplies out to a developing country. There was an earthquake out there a few years ago and my friend's charity went out to help. He vlogged daily on what they witnessed and got really frustrated (and angry) that employees of the big charities were staying in luxury hotels in the capital as it was deemed too damgerous for them to do anything else. All the while, representatives of the smaller charities were getting out into the villages and helping. He asked for us back at home to donate to the smaller charities as the money is guaranteed to get to those in need. It's made me change the way I support charities.

Personally, I've organised a collection of essential items to donate to our local Polosh school. They're driving over to the Polish border with supplies and to help out. I totally understand why they'd want to do it that way and be a volunteer on the ground. If it was the other way around I would feel the same.

I'm not saying that the big charity's don't do valuable work but I believe that the smaller charities are more committed to getting the right sort of help to those in need and promtly during a humanitarian emergency such as this.

[quote MaudieandMe]@labyrinthlaziness
You are simply trying to dissaude people from helping IMO, your thread is cynical, all done under a faux naive question.

I completely disagree with your deeply unpleasant assertions about the OP. The cynical one on this thread is YOU!

On the contrary, it’s been a very useful thread and has allowed posters with detailed knowledge of the developing crisis, to explain more clearly what’s happening with donations of items and monies.[/quote]
I'm not a cynical person about how humans respond to crises/tragedy/war, but there's always some armchair critics who sit on their arses and moan when other people do something.

Every charity effort anywhere attracts the same comments, from the same type of people.

Not all of these efforts will be ideal or productive. But they are more positive than starting a moaning thread on MN criticising others for doing something.

@paddingtonsmarmalade1

Thanks that would be great...I'll have a sort out in the meantime and get everything in one place for if/when it's needed.

I'm in West Sussex but happy to drive it over.

Feel so helpless atm as there's so little I can do.

know someone who runs a small charity who frequently take supplies out to a developing country

Difference here is Poland is not a developing country, and currently is not at war or under any threat of natural disaster. Supply chains and aid should be able to function as normal, albeit with higher demand.

Sending aid into Ukraine itself as a war zone is a whole other issue and should definitely be left to experts.

I sincerely hope that if my town gets bombed people don't roll up in lorries trying to give me second hand duvet covers.

No, it's deluded. Donate money to the Red Cross.

We had a whip round at work and I went out last night to get the bits on the list, it’s some local polish businesses running it and it’s going to the distribution centre.

Given the number of people I’ve seen out buying stuff for it, I don’t think they will be going short.

It’s hard being in britain, our government are being crap compared to others, we’ve no real teeth to bite putin and you watch these horrific heroic scenes on tv. We are just watching and you feel you need to help in someway. And it seems just sending a couple of boxes of paracetamol is all we can do from here.

[quote Porcupineintherough]@forinborin no one can deliver anything to Lviv at the moment and certainly not Bob with his van. Amazon does deliver to the countries where the refugees are fleeing.

Some of these door to door collections are well thought through and helpful. Others are just about people here wanting the buzz of "doing something to help" that donating money doesnt bring, a little mini adventure of their own and a story to tell down the pub. It's a bit sick tbh.[/quote]
And your knowledge is from where exactly? No, not Bob with his van. Ukrainian people cross the border in both directions.

We had a whip round at work and I went out last night to get the bits on the list, it’s some local polish businesses running it and it’s going to the distribution centre

Genuine question, if you had the cash why the need to go and buy bits to donate? Why not donate the cash to the salvation army, red cross etc who can source those same items locally and cheaper?

Or if you do feel these local businesses are doing the right thing, why not give them the cash to fill any gaps they may have, or pay towards fuel etc?

@TakeMeToYourLiar

No, if you want to support give your money to the Red Cross, they know how to do these things

Same with people trying to collect insulin to post. How's that going to work then.

If you don't have the cash to donate give it to an appropriate charity shop and let them convert it to cash

Exactly this.

The big aid charities which work with the Disasters Emergency Committee have years of experience dealing with these situations, and coordinate between each other.

Dave with a transit may be well-meaning but really has no clue what he is doing. All the piles of "donations" to help Ukraine - anyone who has ever helped out in a charity shop will know that a huge percentage of it will be unusable. Just give cash.

There's a lot of grass roots projects, many coordinated by local polish community groups, they are legitimate and most have stated no money for the very reason that they are helping in a fast moving situation with practical help often (at least here) because a local trucking firm has offered to take a container to the border region because they have a pick up in Poland later in the week.

The same thing happened for Syria I should add, practical help like nappies and sanitary items. For monetary donations the country specific Red Cross orgs are a good option.

This is a fair point. I have seen a lot of local appeals via Facebook, and I have thought it makes more sense to donate money for products to be bought in a neighbouring country eg Poland (where the buying power is higher) than buying here and shipping or driving it over. Not to mention to environmental impact of this.

I have just made a donation to the UNICEF Ukraine appeal. It's also easier to donate money then go shopping and then go to a drop off point.

I think it's well meaning, like what happened after the Grenfell fire, but they were quickly overwhelmed with physical donations and asked for them to stop.

I agree with you OP.

I am sure some of the donations will go to good use, but I think it's sort of arrogant to assume that the best way to support Ukrainian refugees is to drive a van of old baby clothes etc there. I would guess enough baby clothes are available in Poland, Hungary etc.

People making donations should do some research first into where things are going. If a van is taking donations then there needs to be people at the other end ready and able to sort and distribute the goods.

I noticed that some of the places asking for donations have now said they have plenty- and more and more posts about donating money instead.

@LetsGoDoDoDo most larger charities deliver through local organisations who are at village/community level- they will provide them with grants and funding. They're a conduit for funding, comms and sometimes technical expertise (e.g. how to set up water and sanitation facilities successfully). They also usually work on aid coordination with the host government and international donors (governments) and get out advocacy messages- e.g. around humanitarian corridors. The shift in international aid and development over the the last 20 years is away from flying 'experts' (or sometimes not experts...) out who don't know communities and don't speak the local language.

So they were probably in the capital city doing that coordination, lobbying their own and other governments and seconding experts to the national government of the country to support their own systems to deliver, as well as supporting those smaller organisations in communities to do the work better.

Poland is not a developing country, supply chains are not destroyed, things work as they should (incidentally even 'developing' countries have markets- how do you think people get stuff!- and lots of them remain intact in a crisis- I've never been anywhere you can't purchase the basics locally). Most of the Ukrainian systems also continue to function at a macro level, which is why the government has asked for donations itself. Just-in-time supply chains exist in the rest of Europe too and retailers can respond quickly and appropriately. Lots of humanitarian response is now based on cash transfers rather than in-kind donations for very good reasons (not least that it is more dignified to let people choose their own soap, snacks or sanpro).

@labyrinthlaziness - I'm not sat on my bum moaning- this is actually my area of professional expertise. I don't want things to be worse for colleagues in the humanitarian community. A lot of armchair humanitarians about this week,

Should have stated ours gave us a very specific list of items, they didn't accept anything not on that list, they are being given the lists from the agencies and individual groups working in the border region. There's actually more need to get supplies to Moldova because being a poorer country they simply don't have in country supplies to start with but I've not seen any projects with supply lines there yet

@EvilPea

We had a whip round at work and I went out last night to get the bits on the list, it’s some local polish businesses running it and it’s going to the distribution centre.

Given the number of people I’ve seen out buying stuff for it, I don’t think they will be going short.

It’s hard being in britain, our government are being crap compared to others, we’ve no real teeth to bite putin and you watch these horrific heroic scenes on tv. We are just watching and you feel you need to help in someway. And it seems just sending a couple of boxes of paracetamol is all we can do from here.

But what/where is this distribution centre? Are you talking about somewhere in U.K. or in Poland? Because I haven't heard of a specific distribution centre in Poland, just lots of makeshift centres for refugees to sleep in.

@plantastic sadly, that's not what was reported. They acted like it was a jolly... lots of drinking and inappropriate behaviour. I understand that a lot of goof work goes on behind the scenes but my point is that relief workers who have a string connection to the people they are helping are more committed. Also, smaller charities can be more focused because that's literally all they are there for. I'm not pitting bog charities down but waving the flag for the underdog! They really do have a positive impact during a humanitarian emergency and as such should be supported.

Excuse the typos

@LetsGoDoDoDo oh definitely, I work at the donor end now and we prioritise smaller organisations. Trouble is, due diligence requirements in some countries mean it's hard to give direct to local organisations due to banking systems, anti-terror legislation, audit requirements etc etc- so you often have to go through an intermediate organisation. Especially difficult for governments who have to field accusations of only giving to big organisations on one side, and not being strong enough on audit and anti-corruption on the other.

I've been around this sector for long enough to know that not everyone who works in it is an angel either! But there are systems set up to manage things and some basic standards people should adhere to.

I guess it’s about connection. I think that people imagine a child in a refugee centre playing with the toy they’ve bought or a mother using the lip salve/hand cream/shampoo/whatever that they picked out in Sainsbury’s for her.

My MP tweeted links to charities seeking financial donations earlier today. It seems the best option tbh. But supplies are great too, if properly organised by those with good contacts in Poland like some of the PPs here.

This thread has definitely given me pause for thought and opened my eyes to SOME of the well meaning but not well thought-out efforts that are taking place. There are some very good grassroots efforts being organised and it is sad to see those being dismissed but I also concede that there are also some people who want to help but are sadly probably just getting in the way and causing more problems.

If you want to donate items then please ensure that the requests for those items are being driven by actual need from people on the ground. I saw one group that was collecting equipment specifically requested by contacts at a Ukrainian field hospital and seemed to have a fairly robust plan in place for getting the things there. I’ve also seen much more vague collections that don’t seem to have an obvious plan in place, as you say OP.

I’ve also seen plenty of posts saying ‘I want to go to Ukraine and help, can someone help me get there’ from people with no relevant experience, or people responding to specific requests for on-the-ground help with very unhelpful comments. One woman was asking if anyone could help her get relatives out of Kyiv and people were replying with ‘yes I’ll help’ and then on further questioning it would turn out that they had no contacts in or anywhere near the Ukraine, no helpful info, just a vague offer of ‘help’ from someone completely clueless in the UK. Again, I understand the impulse to want to do something when you feel so helpless but please think twice about whether what you’re offering is actually helpful.

Like a previous poster, I’ve donated through the Salvation Army (I’ve never heard anything negative about their admin costs). I hadn’t actually realized they were actively involved in Ukraine but they are:

www.salvationarmy.org.uk/

A family member of one of my work colleagues took a van this week to Poland and is filling another now for tomorrow.
I don't think it's an issue sending things as long as you stick to the list. They are specifically asking for no clothes. In reality I don't think anyone is treating it as a shopping list and getting everything, they are digging out things they have that match the list or buying one or two items, people have been coming into my office all week with things. Who is going to send £3 to the Red Cross? you would feel obliged to send more as a cash donation, but you would pass a small pack of nappies to a collection point. If I were doing a separate big shop for these things I would donate cash instead, but not instead of a single item.

There are shops full of tinned food, blankets and warm clothes in Poland though.
They don't need second hand stuff from 100s of miles away.
Aid workers time would be better spent doing other things instead of sorting through donations to take out all the dirty, broken, out of date and unneeded stuff and then organising how to store or dispose of it.

Exactly.