'Aid' lorries going to Ukraine...

[Blurp]

My Facebook timeline is suddenly full of requests from people who are filling lorries full of things to take to Ukraine - they're asking for donations of things like clothes, toiletries and food.

None of them seem to mention the name of a charity or any specifics - mostly it comes across as though some random bloke is just going to fill his lorry with stuff and drive it "to Ukraine".

At first I thought it was a great idea, but the more I read the more I'm questioning it. Not that I think the people doing it are dodgy or anything like that, more that I'm not sure how useful it would be.

Like, do they really need lorries turning up all over the place with random stuff inside? I've no doubt that much of the stuff would be useful, but how do they even start to sort through it and match it to people who need it? Where do they even go to drop it off - do they just pick a random road on the border and park there and give it out? I've seen a few people asking questions like this on the posts, but they tend to get ignored or shouted down.

As far as I'm aware, there are no issues with supply of goods to countries bordering Ukraine, so isn't it better to donate money to organisations already on the ground so that they can bulk buy what they need?

Again, I'm not knocking the people who organise these lorries or the people who donate to them; I'm just wondering how useful it really is.

I have donated to the Salvation Army, I’m not religious but support them because I trust them to use the money appropriately.
I too feel donating money is more effective and less wasteful of resources and administrative costs involved are minimal.

The ones I've seen are from neighbouring countries, e.g. Poles in this country wanting to send items (toiletries, blankets, torches etc.) for refugees who have arrived in Poland, not driving things into Ukraine

Does Poland not have shops where these things can be bought?

People seem to think Poland is some 80’s throwback eastern european country where you can’t buy toothpaste and sanitary items. Or you can’t log on to amazon.pl and get 10 sleeping bags sent to a local church negating the need for steve and his van altogether.

Sourcing the items locally will also have the benefit of supporting the economy, local businesses will benefit from the increased spending.

I don't really see the point in buying a lot of expensive hygiene items in the UK and then sending it in lorries to Poland. Those items are so cheap in countries like Poland, Hungary and Romania.
I am in Hungary quite a lot for various reasons (live in another more expensive Central European country) and I buy my sanitary protection there because it's half the price, sometimes even less.

The reason why we are not collecting money here to buy things closer to the border is because 1) amazon does not deliver to Lviv for some strange reason, so someone will have to do deliveries personally 2) once anyone starts asking for money to send to their mum' church, it will end up in Daily Mail immediately with all the usual shit-stirring about Eastern Europeans.

Does Poland not have shops where these things can be bought?

But do they have enough stock (both in the shops and immediately accessible through their supply chains) to meet the current much increased demand? Especially for things like sleeping bags.

Does Poland not have shops where these things can be bought?

Maybe they have 600 000 cakes for sale too.

One of the Polish community groups in my town is collecting clothes, toys etc, but there's a specific destination, which is a similar group/community centre in Poland that is acting as a first stop for Ukrainian arrivals. They seem to know what they're doing, and I hope people wouldn't be put off from donating because they're not a big charity.

I don't know why they'd bother if it was pointless. They must know these things are needed out there, and I don't think they're pretending so they can hold a massive jumble sale instead

The Catholic Polish Centre near me was accepting donations of clothes, shoes, toiletries, bedding, sleeping bags and toys last Sunday. They’re sorting it out and it will be taken to a named town just over the Ukrainian/polish border. From the off they said no food or drink could be accepted. By 4.30 they were so overwhelmed with donations they changed their info to ask for toiletries and new/as new bedding only. They seem very well organised and to know what is needed. I feel so bloody useless so anything that might be helpful I’m happy to do what little I can.

Does Poland not have shops where these things can be bought?

That's so patronising. They are facing an influx of 600,00o+ people.

Imagine walking miles to the Polish border, hungry and cold with your kids (who are hungry and cold and don't have any nappies) then you get your period. You can't buy anything because you don't have any money and the shops are out of stock. What are you supposed to do then?

Our 'local' appeal is organised through a reputable agency with links to the Red Cross. Better to give money than nothing I suppose but it still means someone else has to go out and buy it over here, then send it over there because they don't have enough supplies.

God forbid you should ever need help.

We have a Ukrainian woman collecting here, they're asking for things like bandages, scissors and painkillers.

Staff from a restaurant in the next city are taking a lorry. They've asked for bullet proof vests, a generator and various equipment for the driver's, so it does seem they are very eyes open on the logistics involved. Filling up alorry with blankets isn't really enough and liable to cost someone somewhere in rescuing you if you're unprepared.

I've seen these too, and not sure if its a genuine need or people struggling with that feeling of helplessness and trying to do anything they can, which whilst well intentioned, is often a lot of work for nothing.

We've donated to Choose Love and the Red Cross.

@forinborin

The reason why we are not collecting money here to buy things closer to the border is because 1) amazon does not deliver to Lviv for some strange reason, so someone will have to do deliveries personally 2) once anyone starts asking for money to send to their mum' church, it will end up in Daily Mail immediately with all the usual shit-stirring about Eastern Europeans.

Steve isn't driving his van into Lviv either though, is he?

I disagree about churches not being able to raise money directly - donating to churches is pretty normal and widely accepted.

Steve isn't driving his van into Lviv either though, is he?
Steve isn't. Our van does.

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy

Does Poland not have shops where these things can be bought?

That's so patronising. They are facing an influx of 600,00o+ people.

Imagine walking miles to the Polish border, hungry and cold with your kids (who are hungry and cold and don't have any nappies) then you get your period. You can't buy anything because you don't have any money and the shops are out of stock. What are you supposed to do then?

Our 'local' appeal is organised through a reputable agency with links to the Red Cross. Better to give money than nothing I suppose but it still means someone else has to go out and buy it over here, then send it over there because they don't have enough supplies.

God forbid you should ever need help.

No, if you give money directly to a local charity in Poland they can buy the supplies needed much cheaper there without anyone having to send a van from here.

@forinborin

Steve isn't driving his van into Lviv either though, is he? Steve isn't. Our van does.

So why does Steve need to collect things here to drive to Poland instead of buying things in Poland?

*That's so patronising. They are facing an influx of 600,00o+ people.

Imagine walking miles to the Polish border, hungry and cold with your kids (who are hungry and cold and don't have any nappies) then you get your period. You can't buy anything because you don't have any money and the shops are out of stock. What are you supposed to do then?*

No it isn’t patronising. What’s patronising is people thinking sending a couple of boxes of tampax with steve and his ford transit will solve the problem better than funding existing Polish commercial and charitable supply chains.

Poland does have shops, obviously. If there’s an increased demand they increase their supply chain. Far more efficiently than a few hundred man and vans all driving over there with no organised distribution plan.

If anyone is on the Polish border needing san pro then shops will restock by the time steve gets there, and in much bigger quantities.

@forinborin no one can deliver anything to Lviv at the moment and certainly not Bob with his van. Amazon does deliver to the countries where the refugees are fleeing.

Some of these door to door collections are well thought through and helpful. Others are just about people here wanting the buzz of "doing something to help" that donating money doesnt bring, a little mini adventure of their own and a story to tell down the pub. It's a bit sick tbh.

Does anyone have a link for the Amazon support page? Someone mentioned it earlier but haven't been able to find it.

Seems an eminently more efficient way of getting aid packages to people than traipsing it all the way from Yorkshire as Amazon have logistics all over Europe.

Aid packages are a lovely idea but think they may work better for refugees that have been taken in here. We had a group of Syrians placed in town recently and it seemed to work well.

I have always found this kind of thing utterly bizarre. You either go to the supermarket and buy toiletries, blankets etc to donate or you give people your old crap. Why don’t the supermarkets do the donating en masse directly? Why aren’t pampers, tampax, Aptamil, whoever donating directly? Why do we piecemeal stuff together through the public as middlemen?

Who is going to fill in all the import/export paperwork required to transport goods into Europe? The queues of trucks at Dover aren't just going to magically disappear because the well-meaning drivers say 'Oh, it's carrier bags full of unsorted, unspecified aid goods for Ukraine'.

But do they have enough stock (both in the shops and immediately accessible through their supply chains) to meet the current much increased demand? Especially for things like sleeping bags.

Poland is a big country with a population of millions. A few hundred thousand extra people is not going to clear the shelves. Sleeping bags that we buy in the UK all come on a lorry from Europe anyway. We don't make them in this country. It's going to cause more pressure on supply chains to order thousands of extra sleeping bags to be driven to Britain. Then to be driven back again. When stuff that is in short supply such as medical equipment has to queue up on the same roads

I don't think this is a bad idea so long as it's well organised tbh.

When the tsunami happened in 2004, I had a four month old and was able to donate lots of barely worn excess clothes and baby equipment.

I'm currently not in a position to donate cash but have lots of good conditions clothing and small toys and books that's might help or bring a tiny bit of pleasure to a refugee child.

If anyone knows of anyone reputable taking this kind of donation from the Sussex area feel free to PM me.

Oh god I feel a bit sick at the guys with 'bulletproof vests' (there's no such thing, by the way- it's body armour and it's not impenetrable). You don't just put one on and it becomes a magic shield.

I've been into a lot of hot conflicts and we have lots of training, equipment (including armoured cars and field trauma medicine) and most importantly a security detail and chain to manage the risk. They're just asking for having to get pulled out by armed forces, who will have to take a risk to save them, or being a massive sitting target for the enemy. it doesn't sound like they know what they are doing at all, it sounds like they want to play at heroes.

The charities have said not to send clothes or anything that needs sorting

@NewYearNewMinty I know of one very well organised one in Sussex, the lady posting is sorting everything into labelled boxes eg 'boys clothes age 5-10' 'nappies and baby creams' etc. She has direct contact with the school in Poland which is being used as a distribution point.

Currently she's had to pause donations as the school have actually had so many clothes that they don't know what to
do with them. If she starts collecting again I can let you know. It is East Sussex.