Has anyone refused to go back into the office?

[GreenPepperRed]

Just that really. Have a job that can easily be done working from home. Company is now saying compulsory 3 days in the office. Has anyone just not gone in and carried on working from home? How did that turn out?

The majority of my department is insisting they are not going in. Can confirm they are serious because I went in to the office a couple days back and there was probably 10% of the people in.

Intrigued what my company will do. Fire us all?

Why do you want to work from home still? So you can slack off?

Our big corporation official line is '2/3 days in the office' going forward but behind the headline there is flexibility/negotiation dependent on department/role.

Most of my team are in London/New York, there isn't much point in me being in the other UK office with only one or two others. I can also work a longer day if I'm not commuting (fitting with US time) and my boss is sensible enough to recognise that.

So my plan is to work 1 of 4 days in the office, a bit of London travel and the rest from home. That makes the most sense for both the employer and me.

Re: your situation, as a team you can all dig your heels in and refuse to go back, but I would be ideally try to have some open discussion/negotiation about your return. Ultimately, your employer has the upper hand really, as your contract will state your workplace.

If you don't get somewhere, I'd suggest you look for a full time remote role elsewhere. Depends what industry you work in, but there are plenty of either 100% remote or remote with once per month travel to an office available. Longer term, I think employers forcing workers back to the office for extensive parts of the week will lose a lot of staff, but you need to give that time to play out.

@catgirl1976

It’s interesting

We are back in 3 / 4 days a week so I’m looking for another job as there is no justifiable reason. My role can be down (and has been done) perfectly well remotely

A blanket “you must be back in the office x days a week” runs the risk of indirect sex discrimination imo. However that’s not a fight I can be arsed to have so I’ll just get another job and vote with my feet as will my colleagues

I have a feeling this will happen where I work. I can't even see a justifiable reason for 2-3 days in the office when my co workers are in different cities, so I still can't talk to them face to face. Its the same for all teams, we are spread across the country. Our work doesn't involve customers. I think they'll just see a lot of people leaving and sadly I'll be one of them. I don't want to leave, but I love my work life balance way more now and my health is great. Don't want to risk that deteriorating just because someone wants me sitting at a desk in a cold office.

A PP also made the very good point that we have to think of the interests of younger people, who may not want to spend their careers working from home.

I disagree so much with this I'm not sure I'll find the words. I'm in my 20s and climbed the corporate ladder very quickly. I manage a team now, mostly people in their late 20s / early 30s. The overwhelming opinion of my team, and any other young people in this big company, as well as any and all opinions I see online is that young people do not want to commute and work in an office. Young people have seen now that a healthy work/life balance IS possible and that we don't all need to be slaves to the corporation. That there is so much more to life than a 9 to 5.

Yes we had great banter in the office, and now we have that on lunches out. And there is the option to come into the office sporadically on certain days if we want to.

I find it extremely important for the sake of young people that this new status quo is maintained. The old boomer mentality of working yourself to death is gone.

@EmbarrassedAllOver

Do you pay your company to employ you?

No? They pay you? Then you do as they say.

There are SO many entitled home workers now. Yes, if you don't agree with the contract (which will likely say you need to work flexibly as required by the business) then they can sack you.

It's also entitled of a business to not take into consideration the needs of their workforce. There are enough places offering WFH or hybrid working that people can easily find a job elsewhere.

Some people have taken this to court and lost. Tread carefully.

We’re back in 2 days per week. Everyone, me included, seems to be happy with this.

It’s not unreasonable for employers to want staff back in at least part time or set days like. It’s beneficial for things like training, supporting juniors etc

I’ll not be surprised if they start taking a hard line and introducing disciplinaries

@Angliski

I’ve wfh for over 20 years for myself snd for various firms. Even when my contract was wfh, there was a reasonable expectation that I would come in for team meets, sometimes client stuff or just to be with others and share info. The problem with wfh experiences people had in the pandemic is that they don’t understand that that wasn’t a normal wfh experience. There is so much more to be gained from a wider pallet of options eg meeting half way, team days, meeting on client site or in a cafe. If your org have asked you to return to the office, it’s because they believe there are benefits to mixing, mingling…

If you don’t return… how will you train new colleagues? How will you help junior colleagues have a sense of team? How will you experience any org wide knowledge sharing? I think many people need to move from ‘I’ to ‘we’ again. If you don’t want to be part of something, work for yourself or find yourself an entirely remote role, but don’t take advantage of your social contract with your employer.

I think you make a really valid point. I think people underestimate the value of learning from each other and how much easier it is to facilitate this face to face, be it a couple of times of year or a couple of times a week.

@EmbarrassedAllOver

Most people I know who are working from home openly admit (to friends, not employer) that they work a fraction of the hours they used to. They regularly do the school run and take a few hours off for childcare. They regularly leave at lunch and just access emails for the afternoon.

I don't blame them if they can get away with it. But equally I don't blame employers for wanting more for the money they're paying.

Meanwhile many public sector (low paid, highly skilled and needed) workers have never been allowed to work from home. They haven't saved commuting costs. They haven't been able to cut childcare costs.

Homeworkers who refuse to go back are entitled. And need to realise the employer holds the cards because they have created the job and pay for it. If you don't want the job, leave.

In most professional services jobs it is about output not hours, so if they are getting the same amount done, good on them! I know my employers never felt bad when I put in 50, 60 70 hours instead of the contracted 37.5.

And honestly, I wasted more time in the office than I do wfh. When the afternoon slump hits I can get up and do a load of laundry instead of zoning out in front of my computer. I can go for a walk or get some exercise instead of walking and waiting at pret for lunch. Meetings are shorter and more productive, and there are no lingering stops at the tea station.

We have hybrid working but employees are expected to be in the office two to three days per week. For those who no longer wish to work in the office they will have their employment contracts amended as thy have unilaterally changed their contract of employment.

This will inevitably mean lower pay rises and bonuses in the future because we have offices all over the U.K including London.. Employees in the north of England are paid less than employees in London and therefore it would be unfair if employees who have a London contract worked from home but received the same pay rises and bonuses as before.

Loads of employers want people back in the office partially because they are paying for office space and tied into contracts.

I run an office building and during the pandemic I had one or two people who insisted they couldn't WFH so I had to heat and power the whole building just for them. It was so wasteful.

Like so many others, we're now hybrid (University) and my team go into the office once a week and I can't see that changing for a long time. There just aren't enough offices on campus for all the Academics and support staff and WFH really is working for so many of us.

Yes, I'd be gutted if we did go back full time as I've had an office built at the bottom of the garden (!) but that wouldn't be up to me. I applied for a job on campus so it's the University's right to bring us back if they want.

My sister and quite a few of her colleagues did this. They are all on a disciplinary now as they are in breach on their contract (many have returned now). I suppose it depends on your.contract?

If you worked in an office prior to the lockdowns, then you should go back in.

If you want to decide on your own rules..then become self employed.

Those refusing to return to the office need to be fired. They are taking the pi## !!! Using a pandemic to justify an easy working life probably sitting on their backside most of the day. When ever I've had to make important phone calls I have struggled to get an answer or wait in a queue for over an hour and this didn't happen before the pandemic. Totally unacceptable.

@eca80 Meetings are shorter but my God, the amount of meetings...! Everything has to be a 'meeting' as we're not chatting in person and I can sometimes have 6 or 7 in one day 😨

The issue is whether employers will actually police the 60%. My husband's employer says 3 days a week in the office but he's only going in two days, and says the office is always quiet and nobody seems to care very much. That may change say after Easter. The thing about 3 days is that if you work somewhere where you commute by train, 3 days is a nonsense because it costs the same as 5 days.

My employer has said 2 days from Easter but it sounds like they are being flexible about that. My role isn't client facing, so if I go in, it is for the sake of it really, so I am planning to aim for one day a fortnight and see how it goes. A colleague in the same role in another team is planning a couple of days a year!

As for "they're your employer and pay you so they call the shots" - well no, it doesn't quite work like that. If they value your expertise and work, they will be flexible.

@MissMaple82

Why do you want to work from home still? So you can slack off?

Can people just fuck off with the assumption that everyone WFH is slacking off? Some people might use the opportunity to slack off but that’s an issue for their manager to deal with on an individual level. Lots of us “entitled” folk who WFH work our backsides off, just like we did when we worked in the office. Only now we don’t have to spend our time and money to get to an office to do it.

I’m lucky my company have changed all our contacts to hybrid and how much we have to go in is up to your department and team manager. Currently we are asked to go in at least once a month, some people choose to do more.

It is frustrating some companies are trying to make people go back in more without their being an obvious value. Presenteeism as someone said earlier. Again if they want people in because of performance issues, this should be made clear and evidence given of how WFH is reducing output. Otherwise it does feel unfair when you’ve WFH for 2 years.

Do people's contracts actually state where they will be working?

Of course

@Guineapigssweak

Those refusing to return to the office need to be fired. They are taking the pi## !!! Using a pandemic to justify an easy working life probably sitting on their backside most of the day. When ever I've had to make important phone calls I have struggled to get an answer or wait in a queue for over an hour and this didn't happen before the pandemic. Totally unacceptable.

You are conflating call centre which are understaffed (deliberately) and had people furloughed for months, with people doing their normal jobs from home. If I didn't do my job, I would be sacked.

What a stupid comment Quirky. The boomer mentality of working yourself to death? I know plenty of young people who are delighted to be back in the office. They didn’t enjoy sitting on their beds with their laptop.

@MissMaple82

Why do you want to work from home still? So you can slack off?

I really laughed at this. You are very direct but you are saying what many are thinking!

@TheKeatingFive

Do people's contracts actually state where they will be working?

Of course

Mine doesn't. The place at work has always been the decision of the line manager.

DH is exploring options to stay at home.