Has anyone refused to go back into the office?

[GreenPepperRed]

Just that really. Have a job that can easily be done working from home. Company is now saying compulsory 3 days in the office. Has anyone just not gone in and carried on working from home? How did that turn out?

The majority of my department is insisting they are not going in. Can confirm they are serious because I went in to the office a couple days back and there was probably 10% of the people in.

Intrigued what my company will do. Fire us all?

Can't believe this thread is still going!

@Notyourtypicalvirgo A safe space means a space either online or offline that has been designed for mothers (I'd hope all parents actually including dad's and guardians) to talk about the challenges in their lives without fear of reprimand or reprecussions.

Mumsnet is a place for debate, discussion, advice and a laugh. I'd hate it to be a place where people can't be criticised or challenged. I'm a mother and I don't want a 'safe space'

It doesn't change the fact that if you don't have children you don't understand the struggles that working parents face or just how expensive it can be for childcare so if flexibility is finally being offered, being btchy and judgemental to mothers finally taking it and smearing us with exaggerations and negative stereotypes really isn't on, especially on a website dedicated to providing us with community.*

Except I am a working mother, and when I very mildly took issue with what you said about what reasonable workplace accommodation for parents could look like, you immediately accused me of bringing toxicity into my workplace and slacking off on my job. With a face if I remember right.

Which does undermine your calls for working mother solidarity and ‘safe space’ of Mumsnet a teensy little bit…

Oh sorry, it was a 😂 face. My mistake.

[quote Notyourtypicalvirgo]@NothingIsWrong its not on to accuse every parent doing the school pickup as taking the piss actually which is what has happened several times throughout this thread.[/quote]
They are taking the piss unless they have arranged with their employer to work reduced hours during the day. If you wouldn't leave the office to collect your child and then bring your child back to the office to look after them then you shouldn't be doing while claiming to be working at home.

Piss takers come in all varieties: mothers are certainly not exempt.

It doesn't change the fact that if you don't have children you don't understand the struggles that working parents face or just how expensive it can be for childcare so if flexibility is finally being offered, being btchy and judgemental to mothers finally taking it and smearing us with exaggerations and negative stereotypes really isn't on, especially on a website dedicated to providing us with community.*

I have two children and work 32 hours a week - am I allowed to say that @MabelsApron is clearly completely in the right or do I somehow not get it either? And they aren't being offered flexibility, they're just taking it!

Piss takers come in all varieties: mothers are certainly not exempt

Spot on, DottyHarmer

I've not seen anyone suggest that all WFH mums are slackers or even that all "premises workers" are automatically harder working. The more negative posts have concerned those who do take the piss, so I'm not sure where the ranting about sterotypes and bitchiness is coming from

Unless perhaps it's struck a nerve?

"If you wouldn't leave the office to collect your child and then bring your child back to the office to look after them then you shouldn't be doing while claiming to be working at home."

I once had a colleague who did this occasionally. She was a single mother and the boss didn't mind.

"if you don't have children you don't understand the struggles that working parents face or just how expensive it can be for childcare "

We can imagine them quite easily and we also know that you choose to become parents.

it all depends on the contract and if senior management 1) also want to work from home and 2) if they have any swing with the director/ceo to get more flexible working.

essentially if it apart of your contract to be in the office or wherever work decide to base you and you break that you are in breach of contract surely ?

Weren’t they protecting a CEV partner?

@Person123456

To answer the OP's original question, i think there was a case of someone refusing and then sued unfair dismissal and won

Meant to quote this.

@Gwenhwyfar

"If you wouldn't leave the office to collect your child and then bring your child back to the office to look after them then you shouldn't be doing while claiming to be working at home."

I once had a colleague who did this occasionally. She was a single mother and the boss didn't mind.

That's why I said if you wouldn't do it. If it is agreed with an employer that is fine but people shouldn't assume it's OK.

@GoldenOmber

It doesn't change the fact that if you don't have children you don't understand the struggles that working parents face or just how expensive it can be for childcare so if flexibility is finally being offered, being btchy and judgemental to mothers finally taking it and smearing us with exaggerations and negative stereotypes really isn't on, especially on a website dedicated to providing us with community.*

Except I am a working mother, and when I very mildly took issue with what you said about what reasonable workplace accommodation for parents could look like, you immediately accused me of bringing toxicity into my workplace and slacking off on my job. With a face if I remember right.

Which does undermine your calls for working mother solidarity and ‘safe space’ of Mumsnet a teensy little bit…

I don't really need to explain how your previous posts were a perfect example of a toxic mindset, generally bitching and assuming the worst of everyone is a key symptom of it

Self awareness is free

It's deeply sad there are women who are actively campaigning against a new way of working that makes life easier for parents.

I can't say the way we were pre pandemic was healthy for me, I worked ridiculous hours in offices missing out on all the lovely moments of my eldest sons primary school years for an employer who really didn't give a fuck and would overlook me for promotion because I couldn't stay til 8pm like everyone else because I had to be back for childminder collection.

I'd argue if you are coming from a place of privilege where you didn't have that exasperating impossible balancing act and a constant feeling like there wasn't enough time in the day (an employer that let you work family friendly hours or you could afford a stay at home nanny).

And no....if you don't have children you'll never know how overwhelmed you feel in the position, how you feel like you're failing at working AND at parenting, how you have to time every second between dropping your child off and making the time, or looking at their school books from reception and crying because you weren't around for any of it.....and my employer couldn't have given two shits about this sacrifice in my life.

It's not "taking flexibility" if your manager is offering it which is what I do for my team and what my employer does for me and I'm happier working than I have been in years with a better connection with my son.

It seems as though a lot of women on here would rather watch people struggle and do this balancing act just because they had to and not actually wanting more for us which as I've said constantly here is more possible these days than it ever has been.

@Notyourtypicalvirgo

It's deeply sad there are women who are actively campaigning against a new way of working that makes life easier for parents.

I can't say the way we were pre pandemic was healthy for me, I worked ridiculous hours in offices missing out on all the lovely moments of my eldest sons primary school years for an employer who really didn't give a fuck and would overlook me for promotion because I couldn't stay til 8pm like everyone else because I had to be back for childminder collection.

I'd argue if you are coming from a place of privilege where you didn't have that exasperating impossible balancing act and a constant feeling like there wasn't enough time in the day (an employer that let you work family friendly hours or you could afford a stay at home nanny).

And no....if you don't have children you'll never know how overwhelmed you feel in the position, how you feel like you're failing at working AND at parenting, how you have to time every second between dropping your child off and making the time, or looking at their school books from reception and crying because you weren't around for any of it.....and my employer couldn't have given two shits about this sacrifice in my life.

It's not "taking flexibility" if your manager is offering it which is what I do for my team and what my employer does for me and I'm happier working than I have been in years with a better connection with my son.

It seems as though a lot of women on here would rather watch people struggle and do this balancing act just because they had to and not actually wanting more for us which as I've said constantly here is more possible these days than it ever has been.

To you, I salute.

I have worked this life, and I cannot believe how cruel some women are. Just because my time is passing as a parent of young children, and I wasn't afforded any of the flexibility forced on us over the last two years, it doesn't mean I do t want it for my younger colleagues.

I can believe it's still going. Because it's (covid, furlough, WFH v hybrid working) all unearthed different varying viewpoints and behaviours that others object to.

@marieantoinehairnet thank you I couldn't agree more

It's deeply sad there are women who are actively campaigning against a new way of working that makes life easier for parents.

They’re not. You just can’t see that, because you are set on everything fitting into your own experiences: either it’s like your current job and it’s flexible and family-friendly, or it’s like your last job and it’s hellish and shit. Anything that doesn’t 100% match your own current job must be like the last one.

So you’ve decided that everyone else’s experience must be like that. You can rock up 20 minutes late for a meeting and it doesn’t matter, so anybody whose job doesn’t allow this just has a cruel inflexible employer. You don’t need lots of meetings, so anyone who does is being cruel to their staff. Everyone you know makes up their hours if they say they will, so anyone claiming it’s not happening in their workplace is wrong, and also doesn’t understand the challenges of being a working parent and probably shouldn’t be on Mumsnet.

But there are many many many of us working parents in jobs which aren’t toxic and inflexible and horrible and yet still don’t allow your current flexibility. Not because they are mean and inflexible and the women in those jobs are a bunch of sniping meanies out to tear you down, but because the requirements of people’s jobs are different.

You aren’t in fact on a quest to help working parents if you aren’t listening to what anybody else has to say about their own jobs, and holing yourself up in a bunker of defensiveness where anybody who even suggests different circumstances to your own is toxic and old-fashioned and out to stop you personally having your personal arrangements that let you pick up your own child.

(Ironically, my own least family-friendly former job would have let me do the school runs mostly whenever I liked… so long as I made up the work, which took 60+ hours a week at minimum. In a culture where sending 2am emails made people see you as really dedicated and productive. I left and don’t miss it.)

@Notyourtypicalvirgo - what you seem to be missing is that an employer is paying someone. Flexibility is always the ideal, but it works both ways.

Incidentally I was talking to ds’s friend on Friday, who works for a big (mega) company. He elected to return to the office recently, as did every other 20-something. He said it was all very nice to see some colleagues, but his two immediate bosses were not in. He said he’d been hoping to connect with them as one in particular is an expert in his field, but he has moved to Norfolk and apparently will no longer be coming in. I think both women and men do have some duty to those coming behind, otherwise it is just kicking the ladder away with a big “FU I’m all right Jack.”

That’s a shame DottyHarmer. In my workplace the more senior people are getting a stronger steer about coming back (not 5 days a week, just some days sometimes of their own choosing), which seems fair.

[quote DottyHarmer]@Notyourtypicalvirgo - what you seem to be missing is that an employer is paying someone. Flexibility is always the ideal, but it works both ways.

Incidentally I was talking to ds’s friend on Friday, who works for a big (mega) company. He elected to return to the office recently, as did every other 20-something. He said it was all very nice to see some colleagues, but his two immediate bosses were not in. He said he’d been hoping to connect with them as one in particular is an expert in his field, but he has moved to Norfolk and apparently will no longer be coming in. I think both women and men do have some duty to those coming behind, otherwise it is just kicking the ladder away with a big “FU I’m all right Jack.”[/quote]
The employer pays someone for hours, the flex is in where those hours occur if the employer is ok with it

And I'd really like everyone to just come off it and stop acting like you don't take breaks during the day, you don't do a full 8 hours

If you add up the amount of breaks smokers get on minutes it's more than what the school run would be

Well that’s depends on your contract, some people are so entitled