Has anyone refused to go back into the office?

[GreenPepperRed]

Just that really. Have a job that can easily be done working from home. Company is now saying compulsory 3 days in the office. Has anyone just not gone in and carried on working from home? How did that turn out?

The majority of my department is insisting they are not going in. Can confirm they are serious because I went in to the office a couple days back and there was probably 10% of the people in.

Intrigued what my company will do. Fire us all?

@Notyourtypicalvirgo

Sorry *@nothingiswrong* but that sounds like a scheduling problem on your part and an unwillingness to be flexible. If you're spending every hour of work in meetings I could potentially see your point (and I mean if that's the case you have bigger issues because there's clearly no time for deliverables).

On my team, we schedule the bulk of our meetings between 10am -3pm and then again between 4-5pm. People who want a lunch break should be adults about it and take their lunch break when they have the time to rather than merely when they want to.

I think we can all agree that child safeguarding is more important than when we all fancy a lunch break and it's a fact of life. I definitely agree with paying for wrap around childcare if you have very young children as not giving them your full attention is a safety issue, but in my case my eldest is 9. Once I pick him up from school he's usually distracted by the PlayStation or doing his homework which means I'm able to log back on at 3.45pm and focus for the rest of my afternoon. It made no sense for either me or my staff pre pandemic to pay for after school childcare for kids this age, it's a waste of money when working from home is always a viable option.

There are 8-9 hours in the work day....if someone doing the school run for less than an hour of one of them causes that much of an issue then again I'll say that's a you problem and the poor parents shouldn't be lambasted for that when everyone is trying to do the best they can both in their jobs and for their families.

As for you not liking people working in the evening....again, I think you need to get over that personally and start thinking more creatively in terms of scheduling. Employees with more autonomy in the way they work have been proven to be happier and less likely to move.

I'm perfectly willing to be flexible, but the fact remains we have multiple projects to resource with multiple external stakeholders. I cannot schedule EVERY meeting between 10-12 and 2-3.

And I'm not about to tell those without children that they can't have a break at lunchtime because I'm planning meetings around school pick up times. That is ludicrous and unfair.

Who's that to @QuirkyTurtle?

I work in HR and can confirm that if your contract confirm you work in an office you are required to return. However, you are completely within your right to put in a flexible working application to request to remain working from home or at least working from home a couple of days a week etc. anyone can do this, you don't need to have children etc to do that and the business have to give it serious consideration and have a case as to why not, if they say no.
Good luck!
I've just put one in myself and it was accepted.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Who's that to *@QuirkyTurtle*?

Anyone who complains about meetings between 10 and 3 being unfair to people who want to take a lunch break. I snorted just typing that out.

Anyone who complains about meetings between 10 and 3 being unfair to people who want to take a lunch break. I snorted just typing that out.

At some people’s workplaces, what that would look like is everyone’s calendar being solid back-to-back meetings between 10 and 3, so therefore no chance for a lunch break…

I work for a large organisation and the original plan was for everyone to return 2 days a week I think. There was significant pushback about this and it seems to have dropped to one day a week with some exceptions made with individual managers.

I know they are recruiting some for some fully remote roles too but those that worked for the organisation pre-pandemic won't be able to be fully remote. Interesting to see how that pans out.

The contracts were changed to accommodate for the mix of WFH/ in office.

However the difference with my organisation is that they took the opportunity to give up some of the leased office space (conveniently timed break clause) so physically it will be tricky to have everyone back in office at once.

In short, it's an organisation that has lots of long standing employees and when there was significant pushback on return to the office, they listened. So it depends. It can happen.

@GoldenOmber

Anyone who complains about meetings between 10 and 3 being unfair to people who want to take a lunch break. I snorted just typing that out.

At some people’s workplaces, what that would look like is everyone’s calendar being solid back-to-back meetings between 10 and 3, so therefore no chance for a lunch break…

I want to say that in that case your first problem is forcing your staff into 5 hours of meetings per day.

If I had to squeeze everything into 10-3, there would be days when meetings would run into each other across the whole 5 hours. Not every day granted, but even a couple of days where there wasn't time for a proper break - seeing as we are all focussing on work life balance - can start to become an issue. Especially if it is seen as prioritising some staffs external commitments in their working hours over others having time for a break and a meal in the middle of the day.

@QuirkyTurtle

It wouldn't be every day. But yes, there are days during some project phases where we are very meeting intensive. Other phases are not so much. But with lots of projects on, I would foresee at least one day a week where project leads in particular could easily be back to back for 5 hours.

I want to say that in that case your first problem is forcing your staff into 5 hours of meetings per day.

That’s what some people’s jobs are like. Some require more meetings than others. 🤷‍♀️

Just like some people don’t have the flexibility to arrange all meeting times with their own team based on 5 people’s school run preferences, because their meetings are often with people outside their team and outside their scheduling control.

[quote PinkSparklyPussyCat]@Notyourtypicalvirgo what you're saying is that people who want lunch breaks, which they are entitled to, should be adults and take them when it's convenient for you.

I don't have children but why should I be forced to take my lunch break so someone can pick up their kid? Of course I'll do it to help out occasionally but not because someone expects me to.[/quote]
That's not what I said (but qq.....if you don't have children, why are you on Mumsnet??)

In the example above, the poster says she has absolutely no spare time in the day and it sounds like time is very tight to the point where scheduling is a problem. In that instance what time you take lunch is pretty low priority and you should be acting in the interest of the team. If you have to squeeze it in at 1-2 because that's the time you don't have calls then so be it, parents shouldn't have to pay hundreds a month in wrap around childcare for your luxury if it isn't necessary.

However....in a healthy well organised workplace, this shouldn't be a consideration and you have every right to take lunch whenever you want 😊

I kind of hate the fact that this thread is making me appreciate my company and industry.

I act in the best interests of my team by paying hundreds of pounds a month in wraparound to be focussed on my job during the hours I'm being paid for thank you very much.

We don't tend to have many internal meetings during lunchtime but I tend to decline any customer meetings that fall during lunchtime or are requested before 9am or after 5pm. Obviously if it's essential that's different but most can wait.

That's not what I said (but qq.....if you don't have children, why are you on Mumsnet??)

Oh not that one again . There's a lot of boards on MN that don't relate to kids - I first started posting on The Litter Tray.

In the example above, the poster says she has absolutely no spare time in the day and it sounds like time is very tight to the point where scheduling is a problem. In that instance what time you take lunch is pretty low priority and you should be acting in the interest of the team. If you have to squeeze it in at 1-2 because that's the time you don't have calls then so be it, parents shouldn't have to pay hundreds a month in wrap around childcare for your luxury if it isn't necessary.

My lunch break isn't a luxury, it's an entitlement and a necessary one at the moment! It's shit enough WFH without going without a lunch break! Obviously I do take it when it's convenient but I often book things in my lunch hour so try to have a regular time and will decline meetings if I've booked something.

However....in a healthy well organised workplace, this shouldn't be a consideration and you have every right to take lunch whenever you want 😊

Unfortunately ours is manic at the moment but I'm making sure I take a full hour - I need to step away otherwise I'll be resigning!

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

That's not what I said (but qq.....if you don't have children, why are you on Mumsnet??)

Oh not that one again . There's a lot of boards on MN that don't relate to kids - I first started posting on The Litter Tray.

In the example above, the poster says she has absolutely no spare time in the day and it sounds like time is very tight to the point where scheduling is a problem. In that instance what time you take lunch is pretty low priority and you should be acting in the interest of the team. If you have to squeeze it in at 1-2 because that's the time you don't have calls then so be it, parents shouldn't have to pay hundreds a month in wrap around childcare for your luxury if it isn't necessary.

My lunch break isn't a luxury, it's an entitlement and a necessary one at the moment! It's shit enough WFH without going without a lunch break! Obviously I do take it when it's convenient but I often book things in my lunch hour so try to have a regular time and will decline meetings if I've booked something.

However....in a healthy well organised workplace, this shouldn't be a consideration and you have every right to take lunch whenever you want 😊

Unfortunately ours is manic at the moment but I'm making sure I take a full hour - I need to step away otherwise I'll be resigning!

No one said don't take a lunch break where are you reading that?

I said take it when you can and if your boss won't let you because she's so disorganized and neurotic about a couple people being out for 15 minutes because they're doing the school run and that somehow impacts you.....then leave Jesus Christ because that workplace has much much bigger problems than a few parents.

I take my lunch break when my schedule is clear and that can be anytime when I don't have a call....is that really that hard to understand???

Sorry if any of that sounded snippy @Notyourtypicalvirgo. As you can probably tell work is not going well at the moment and lunchtime is my 'pull yourself together you need the job' time!

Yeah, I've started actually leaving the house/office during my lunch breaks and making sure my work phone isn't with me, as it's the only way to be properly away from work. If I'm anywhere near my computer it's far too easy to get sucked into just doing one last thing, and then someone IMs you, and then...

It's actually one of the things that's got more annoying since we started working from home, as back when you were in the office people had to actually come and find you or bother to look out your number ring you if they wanted you. Now, you are merely one IM anyway from everybody in the whole sodding organisation.

@NothingIsWrong

I act in the best interests of my team by paying hundreds of pounds a month in wraparound to be focussed on my job during the hours I'm being paid for thank you very much.

That's your choice, don't expect the same from others when there are more ways to do things.

I live 3 miles out of the school catchment area and I can still do the school run in 20-30 mins. I expect you're blowing a lot of this out of proportion personally or you really just have an issue with organisation.

I also work in a busy workplace but my team appreciate that I'm very pragmatic and I don't like to create extra work that's not needed or hold unnecessary meetings which add no value and funnily enough the school run and lunches have never been an issue for us 🤷🏽‍♀️

I agree @GoldenOmber. I make sure I'm away from my computer for the full hour. Thankfully I don't have a work phone but if I hear someone calling me on Teams I ignore it.

People are being strangely defensive about wfh, and seem at great pains to justify any possible unreasonable behaviour.

I do wonder what jobs people do that require no soft touch working with colleagues, today I have had a number of three way conversations, face to face discussions made much easier sat next to each other, support from colleagues when I found out a client (who I was quite fond of in a professional kind of way) had died, and had an informal conversation about school proms, - all a lot more difficult on the phone or teams, maybe the difference is I am in a job that is people focused, I can't get away from them (even if I wanted to) and I can't do my job in isolation.

What on earth has child safeguarding got to do with it? Are you saying that parents now have a right to have older children at home with them for safeguarding reasons, and if them being there interferes with the parents’ ability to carry out their job during the day then others should rearrange their lunchtime because “safeguarding”?

I feel like I’m on another planet reading MN sometimes, I honestly do.

I lead large project teams and usually have multiple projects at once that involve clients and staff in multiple countries. I’m not going to squeeze all my meetings into 10-3 and make life difficult for those in other time zones and it would make day day pretty horrific to have back to back calls instead of nicely spread out over a longer period. I arrange meetings around client schedules, team members agreed flexible working patterns, and try to avoid too early or late in the day for everyone. School pick ups are pretty low on my list to avoid!

@MabelsApron

What on earth has child safeguarding got to do with it? Are you saying that parents now have a right to have older children at home with them for safeguarding reasons, and if them being there interferes with the parents’ ability to carry out their job during the day then others should rearrange their lunchtime because “safeguarding”?

I feel like I’m on another planet reading MN sometimes, I honestly do.

Mabel, from speaking to you I think the planet you were apart of died out long ago....

And yes, you need someone to watch your child if they are under a certain age, if I'm working from home I'm not paying a childminder or after-school club when I can pick him up myself and have him under my roof.

For someone so educated, it's strange that the obvious needs to be pointed out to you so often....

and funnily enough the school run and lunches have never been an issue for us 🤷🏽‍♀️

While I'm sure your own personal management skills are top notch, might this also be because of the nature of your job/your organisation/your organisation's expectations? Meetings are a much bigger part of some jobs than they are of others, and alas, it doesn't always come down to how no-nonsense your own team manager is.