Has anyone refused to go back into the office?

[GreenPepperRed]

Just that really. Have a job that can easily be done working from home. Company is now saying compulsory 3 days in the office. Has anyone just not gone in and carried on working from home? How did that turn out?

The majority of my department is insisting they are not going in. Can confirm they are serious because I went in to the office a couple days back and there was probably 10% of the people in.

Intrigued what my company will do. Fire us all?

If people WFH slacked off they'd lose their jobs, same as if they were in the office.

Oh, you sweet child.

@Iamthewombat

A lot of people in this thread are acting like pursed-lipped dinosaurs, though.

(To describe people who can see the benefit of teams working together for at least part of the week, and don’t subscribe to the view that we should all refuse reasonable working requests from our employers because we’ve got THE POWER etc)

Hurrah! A new insult to go with ‘boot lickers’, ‘forelock tuggers’ and ‘old boomers’.

Keep them coming. Bear in mind that if you have to resort to name-calling, it’s because your argument doesn’t stand up.

WFH people can work more efficiently as they don't get interrupted by others chit-chat

Come off it! As if you are gazing intently at your screen for eight hours. And is ‘chit chat’ so awful? It’s howinformation is exchanged and how relationships are built.

they save two hours per day commuting time which could be our to better use

Are you bollocks working two extra hours a day because you aren’t commuting. Pull the other one.

I worked with people, years ago, who used this excuse to WFH. Their commuting time was going to be used for extra work, they said. You could never get hold of them. They used to claim that they had been at their screens since 6 am. That was easy to check: they hadn’t.

they save a fortune on petrol and can see that less cars on the road is better for the environment

I believe that the first thing matters to the office refuseniks, but not the second. It’s just a convenient excuse.

I agree wholeheartedly

[quote AllOfUsAreDead]@GreenPepperRed

I would just leave now if I were you. If they are going to be daft and send more jobs offshore, let them. Let them figure out how to do that with very few staff left behind to train them.

Going offshore always seems simple, then you get customers complaining of bad service from abroad, they aren't trained right so they can't assist with problems internally or externally etc.

If the company goes under, that's their problem. Get out while you can.[/quote]
Sounds like great advice…great for the OP’s employer, that is. Who wants to employ a load of grumbling, militant whiners who aren’t interested in the well-being of the business and who refuse reasonable requests?

@ufucoffee has it.

I've said , on similar threads, about an insurance employee that I needed to speak to regarding a policy but I kept being asked to " hang on " as she had to deal with her toddler.

It's almost impossible, now, to speak to anyone at any company, as you have to wait in an interminable queue and then you get cut off after soooo long.
Interesting to note how many more people are out jogging/walking the lockdown puppy/in the park compared to before the pandemic.

When I retired, not many people would be in the supermarket/high street.
Post pandemic, the supermarket/high street seem like an ordinary Saturday afternoon... even on a mid week morning.

There's a little, out of the way cafe, near me that was always barely half full by lunchtime.
You now have to book a table , days in advance , as it's stuffed full by mid morning, by... working age women , who never used to be there pre pandemic.

I feel that some of these wfh folk are pulling a fast one.

@Belladonna12

I'm not jealous grin I couldn't think of anything worse than WFH all the time. I can see the benefits of hybrid working sure, but is everyone so antisocial on MN they don't want human contact during the day?

Just because people work from home doesn't mean they don't have human contact during the day.

I worry about a vision of the future where 80% of young adults are sat in their bedrooms on laptops all day. I mean, that's scary and can't be good for anyone's mental / physical health.

I have worked at home for many years and my mental health is fine. Not everyone is the same as you.

Ok - I agree that it doesn't mean people don't have human contact all day. But it is much of a stretch to think there will be people who live alone or have difficult home lives? And of course not everyone is the same as me 🙄 but I can't see how everyone just sat at home on laptops is genuinely helpful for most of the population. Their poor eyes for a start!

@DuvetD you get used to it. I've always worked on screens, between 8-12hrs a day
If I was in the office I would be on a desktop but I'm on a laptop at hone

@Iamthewombat

Are you bollocks working two extra hours a day because you aren’t commuting. Pull the other one.

I worked with people, years ago, who used this excuse to WFH. Their commuting time was going to be used for extra work, they said. You could never get hold of them. They used to claim that they had been at their screens since 6 am. That was easy to check: they hadn’t. *

I never for one moment suggested that I was using the extra two hours per day to work! Of course I don't do that - if this was the case why on earth would I see a benefit to working from home? I said the extra two hours could be put to better use - be this walking the dog, watching TV - anything is a better use of my time than sitting in a bloody traffic jam!

I'm not an 'office refusenik' by the way! No-one has asked me to return . I was simply responding to another poster that there are other reasons for wanting to work from home than the fact that you can 'slack off'. In my case this would come to light within a few days - I agree that wouldn't be the case for everyone .

[quote PrimroseTheSmooth]@shinynewapple22 This was definitely our experience in lockdown- in fact, during the time when you were allowed into the office if you couldn't work from home we ended up opening an office (attendance completely optional) as so many younger people were really struggling with the isolation of wfh and we had real concerns over mental health.[/quote]
@PrimroseTheSmooth I can well believe it. As I said, I would have hated working from home in my 20s. I think there are possibly specific reasons in the case of our workers - mainly based around the length of their journey - either because this involves a difficult journey by public transport or because they were employed during the WFH period and don't reside within the local area .

I never for one moment suggested that I was using the extra two hours per day to work! Of course I don't do that - if this was the case why on earth would I see a benefit to working from home? I said the extra two hours could be put to better use - be this walking the dog, watching TV - anything is a better use of my time than sitting in a bloody traffic jam!

Better for you, then. Not better for your employer. You don’t get to choose to work from home because you prefer walking the dog or watching telly to commuting.

I work for the Tube in London (so have never WFH, not even to do training, all online or F2F) and my bosses have acknowledged the WFH revolution has had a catastrophic effect on the organisations finances (that, and the Mayor of London) and so we are being "restructured" (read: job cuts). I would absolutely love all the commuters we had pre-Covid to come back, but it hasn't happened. Annual and monthly Travelcard sales are down. Instead people are using their contactless cards to come into the city once or twice a week.

If you have made it work, good for you. But there is a much wider impact for the economy, and job market. Job availability for roles that serve the commuter industry has shrunk. So some people have gained, but others have lost out

I love the fantasy that everyone who works from home spends 8 hours a day focusing intently on their work and that people who work in the office spend their time either being interrupted by “chit chat” or having extended water cooler moments and doing fuck all.

Some people are productive, some people aren’t. The location where they do their work has very little bearing on that.

@Iamthewombat

I never for one moment suggested that I was using the extra two hours per day to work! Of course I don't do that - if this was the case why on earth would I see a benefit to working from home? I said the extra two hours could be put to better use - be this walking the dog, watching TV - anything is a better use of my time than sitting in a bloody traffic jam!

Better for you, then. Not better for your employer. You don’t get to choose to work from home because you prefer walking the dog or watching telly to commuting.

No of course not!! I haven't chosen to work from home for these reasons . I work from home because, for the moment, my employer has asked me to do so. I am pointing out some of the benefits of working from home - other than 'slacking off'

You keep quoting me but you are confusing me with someone who said they would refuse to return to the office .

It's just so selfish to future generations. I dont get it when our kids were at home there was an outcry. It's not just about their education it's the social interaction the isolation and all the other stuff you do not get sat staring at a screen. This applies to adults too and I dont not want the working world to change so much that my now 10 and 5 year olds grow up get a job to what sit in their bedrooms and go to work. Nooooooo they need to see other people leave their house go on a work lunch a work night out make work freinds. Hybrid working is great but people who use that umbrella to permanently WFH are screwing the next generation with a I am alright jack attitude and for what.

No of course not!! I haven't chosen to work from home for these reasons . I work from home because, for the moment, my employer has asked me to do so. I am pointing out some of the benefits of working from home - other than 'slacking off'

You keep quoting me but you are confusing me with someone who said they would refuse to return to the office

No confusion, thanks. You have spent most of the thread agreeing energetically with posters claiming that they shouldn’t be made to work in an office again and that an employer asking them to do so constitutes a diabolical liberty.

Your reasons for preferring WFH are very clear, and rather selfish and disingenuous. You may be WFH for the moment, but I have no doubt that you’d argue against returning to the office, using the same excuses (‘benefits of working from home’) you gave upthread, when your employer tells you to do so.

Ok - I agree that it doesn't mean people don't have human contact all day. But it is much of a stretch to think there will be people who live alone or have difficult home lives?

It isn't a stretch but nobody is suggesting people should work at home if they don't want to.

And of course not everyone is the same as me 🙄 but I can't see how everyone just sat at home on laptops is genuinely helpful for most of the population. Their poor eyes for a start!

Why assume that laptops are only used at home? In my workplace everyone uses a laptop whether they are at home or in the office so going back to work won't make any difference.

@Iamthewombat

No of course not!! I haven't chosen to work from home for these reasons . I work from home because, for the moment, my employer has asked me to do so. I am pointing out some of the benefits of working from home - other than 'slacking off'

You keep quoting me but you are confusing me with someone who said they would refuse to return to the office

No confusion, thanks. You have spent most of the thread agreeing energetically with posters claiming that they shouldn’t be made to work in an office again and that an employer asking them to do so constitutes a diabolical liberty.

Your reasons for preferring WFH are very clear, and rather selfish and disingenuous. You may be WFH for the moment, but I have no doubt that you’d argue against returning to the office, using the same excuses (‘benefits of working from home’) you gave upthread, when your employer tells you to do so.

Your reading comprehension is not very good then !! I may be enthusiastic about WFH but not once have I 'defended' any other poster.

I think your imagination is running away with you .

@Pandai

Hopefully lots of customer service jobs are back in the office, nothing quite like phoning to sort something important out and hearing a shrieking toddler in the background or oh sorry will have to get back to you as we don't have that software at home.

Customer service has been shit over the past two years. WFH may not be the only factor, but it definitely is a factor, and doesn't fit in with the 'so much more productive' line you hear on MN.

You’re definitely on the ropes if you’re pulling out the “your reading comprehension isn’t very good” gambit.

And of course not everyone is the same as me 🙄 but I can't see how everyone just sat at home on laptops is genuinely helpful for most of the population. Their poor eyes for a start!

If I hadn't been allowed to take home one of my screens I would have refused to WFH until they provided me with proper equipment. There is no way I could have looked at a pathetic little laptop screen all day.

Customer service has been shit over the past two years. WFH may not be the only factor, but it definitely is a factor, and doesn't fit in with the 'so much more productive' line you hear on MN.

No idea about customer service, but my job involves reviewing documents and talking people through what I’ve done with them. If I wasn’t getting through what’s on the pile, my ‘customers’ would be shouting about it. I don’t get to simply choose not to turn work around if it’s there. Deadlines and volume of work dictate whether I’m having a relatively quiet week or not, not where I am.

I take the ‘all my wfh friends watch Netflix all day’ posts (there is at least one on this thread) with a massive pinch of salt.

Lots of us have to do lots of screen time where we are in the office or working from home, makes no odds.
As for people going on about not wanting WFH for their kids…there are still lots of jobs which remain people facing. Your children will have a choice to decide what they go into. It’s not my job to pave the way for your children’s careers and ways of working.

@LuckySantangelo35 - then it’s not Boomers’ fault that they have all the housing wealth. Current 40-somethings are shafting the upcoming generation work wise. And mentally, too.

The worst wfh offenders are councils, or at least my local council. They are in full-on 2020 lockdown mode. Their offices are closed, and you can only email a central address which is checked and then the emails forwarded to the appropriate department whose staff are all wfh (this is a big council, too). Wonderful! those who wfh might claim. I think they’ve managed to reduce their workload by 90% .

In my new role, I have been WFH from the start agreeing to go into the office every now and then. All informal, not in my contract. Other colleagues however, after WFH since start of covid are now also expected to go back in 3 days a week. We have different roles, so not comparing apples to apples. Not popular at all.

I think it is largely an age thing. Younger colleagues are happy to be back in and I can totally understand why - working at home may not be as comfortable and they miss the social aspect. I would be the same at their age.

If they said to me there was an expectation to go back in 3 days a week, I would honestly say 'that doesn't work for me - your move' (a bit politer than that but that would be the message).

But that would be with the expectation that they could decide to let me go. If they did then no hard feelings. I live too far away to commute and have zero interest in that lifestyle anymore. I work long unsociable hours, which I can tolerate from home but not otherwise.

Like most things in life it depends who has the most leverage - do you want the job more than they want you in the job. Who will blink first.

I believe that (saving money) matters to the office refuseniks, but not (the environment). It’s just a convenient excuse

Another one who very much agrees with this
It's amazing how quickly folk leap upon "the environment" when it supports something that suits, just as some prate about the impact of having children only after completing their own family. You'd have thought that could have been worked out before, but apparently not

Any argument that your job is merely the tasks you can do from home and that your employer gains nothing from having you there in person is an argument to outsource your role to somewhere cheaper. Indeed, this was the way things were going even before Covid: when I started work I had a secretary in the office next to mine. Now I send any secretarial work to someone in South Africa.