Has anyone refused to go back into the office?

[GreenPepperRed]

Just that really. Have a job that can easily be done working from home. Company is now saying compulsory 3 days in the office. Has anyone just not gone in and carried on working from home? How did that turn out?

The majority of my department is insisting they are not going in. Can confirm they are serious because I went in to the office a couple days back and there was probably 10% of the people in.

Intrigued what my company will do. Fire us all?

My organisation started off saying we all had to do at least 40% in the office, but we've ditched it now, because it didn't work and we were also missing out on good candidates when recruiting (we are employing a lot of new staff and it really is a job seekers market at the moment)

The team I lead is just as productive as it was when we were all on site together, we are still quite mixed, some in several days a week, some 100% homeworking and I don't see any reason to change that at the moment, but we will see how things go and try to accommodate everyone with a bit of compromise, if necessary. I prefer to work in the office, but I am still struggling to get ready on time in the morning

I must admit I find it hard to understand the "just do what you're told" comments, I think the most successful businesses value their staff and know that listening to them and working together means you get the best out of your people and leads to a more productive workforce. If people aren't working productively at home, then that's a performance issue, rather than a working at home issue.

skulking at home and trying to organise a revolution against their employer.

LOL. To the (virtual) barricades!

Dunno about your company.

Overall I’d guess we’ll end up with a hybrid work culture. In my company we don’t find working from home worked all that well FT, but it depends of course.

It depends how bothered they are. They are entitled to have workers back in the office, so if they want to, I guess they will take disciplinary action one department at a time, probably after a consultancy with HR/external advisers on strategy.

I don’t think they will need to fire everyone, as that will get a lot of people back to the office, especially if it’s not required to be full time. Then I’d guess a few people make get fired if they hold out.

@GreenPepperRed

I would just leave now if I were you. If they are going to be daft and send more jobs offshore, let them. Let them figure out how to do that with very few staff left behind to train them.

Going offshore always seems simple, then you get customers complaining of bad service from abroad, they aren't trained right so they can't assist with problems internally or externally etc.

If the company goes under, that's their problem. Get out while you can.

The OP seems offended that several posters have suggested that she is most likely a junior employee
That’s because she is behaving like a junior employee. Anybody in a senior position will be there because they know how to engage in discussions appropriately. Not skulking at home and trying to organise a revolution against their employer

Quite so

I'd add a small caveat around being exercised about what "everyone else" is planning, mainly because I've seen this so often. Some issues attracts a lot of heat, but once things shake down many of the noise-makers tend to go off the radar, leaving those determined to hold out swinging in the wind and very much in the firing line for whatever follows

Just something to bear in mind when planning anything on the back of "everyone else" ...

[quote AllOfUsAreDead]@GreenPepperRed

I would just leave now if I were you. If they are going to be daft and send more jobs offshore, let them. Let them figure out how to do that with very few staff left behind to train them.

Going offshore always seems simple, then you get customers complaining of bad service from abroad, they aren't trained right so they can't assist with problems internally or externally etc.

If the company goes under, that's their problem. Get out while you can.[/quote]
I agree with you and so do most of my colleagues seemingly as a lot have admitted they're keeping their eyes open for opportunities elsewhere. Weird thing is the company could prevent the chaos if they adopted more flexible working as opposed to compulsory 5 days a week in the office like where they're heading. I wish I could have been in the big senior meetings where they decided not to be flexible so I could hear what their reasonings were!

It was never meant to be a permanent thing, a lot of people seem to be forgetting that.

So what? Things change and evolve every day.

I agree with most employees being replaceable. There are many uni graduates full of enthusiasm and willing to learn. They want to work in offices.

I would 100% prefer to enjoy an inexperienced eager starter happy to be there than keep older blaze staff who think that coming 3 days a week is a massive asked.

Same with the mums of young kids who are using wfh as a mean not to pay for childcare who are always full of excuses why they are distracted in meetings, having to suddenly disappear or not able to join at all because its pick up time.

I would argue that the bigger picture can still be maintained with a flexible work policy

But you said that's what you've been offered, with just 3 days in the workplace, only now so much of the thread hasn't gone your way it's somehow changed to "heading towards compulsory 5 days back in the office"

While we can't know about your particular workplace, some of us have been very clear that WFH can work brilliantly - though perhaps less so when some regard it as some sort of social crusade instead of a business negotiation based on the needs of all

My employer has said we’ll be back to the office 40% of the time from September but for now it’s one day a week. This only started last month and there has been lots of people who haven’t turned up to the office. To be fair, for my team, there’s no reason to be in the office, we have 4 people in England and the other 6 in Glasgow and Cardiff so we can’t really be in the same space. we still take our laptops to work and just do the same work just in a different location.

I like the hybrid working model and it works for me so I’m fine with it. They’ve also changed our contract to hybrid working. However, I have lots of colleagues who are not.
My employer is a global cooperation and they value their reputation so they can’t just fire people so they are trying to make the office more appealing like giving us free lunch, etc.

My company have done something similar. Free breakfast, heavily subsidised lunch and free snacks. You could eat fish and chips with all the trimmings on a Friday for about £1.50.

... mums of young kids who are using wfh as a mean not to pay for childcare who are always full of excuses why they are distracted in meetings, having to suddenly disappear or not able to join at all because its pick up time

Indeed

I've mentioned this on here before, but I was less than impressed when unable to hear a professional adviser because of kids screaming in the background
As it happens, in my particular circumstances she's working for a flat %, but considering her usual fee is £280ph I wouldn't expect much admiration from those who've been billed for extra time purely because they couldn't hear a word she was saying

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I would argue that the bigger picture can still be maintained with a flexible work policy

But you said that's what you've been offered, with just 3 days in the workplace, only now so much of the thread hasn't gone your way it's somehow changed to "heading towards compulsory 5 days back in the office"

While we can't know about your particular workplace, some of us have been very clear that WFH can work brilliantly - though perhaps less so when some regard it as some sort of social crusade instead of a business negotiation based on the needs of all

Ok this is a fair point that I didn't make the culture of the company clear in my initial post.

They're very heavy handed usually and started off their enforcement email with words along the lines of (paraphrased) "in the first steps towards our ways of working post pandemic, we now require everyone to be in the office at least 3 days a week as of X"

The way they worded it sounded like they have plans to increase the number of compulsory days in the office in future.

Colleagues didn't take to that well and most didn't come in 3 days a week even though date X has passed. Some questioned why it has to even be 3 days a week compulsory. Most stayed quiet and just didn't bother coming in.

But yes my colleagues are hoping for a more flexible work policy than 3 days a week which seems like a controversial opinion here. I agree that 3 days a week in office is not necessary for my industry. I think they would keep a lot of people happy even if they reduced it by one day to 2. But it sounds like the company policies are heading in the opposite direction.

But yes my colleagues are hoping for a more flexible work policy than 3 days a week which seems like a controversial opinion here. I agree that 3 days a week in office is not necessary for my industry. I think they would keep a lot of people happy even if they reduced it by one day to 2.

I would bet a lot of money that whatever number of days the company had said, the colleagues who are now refusing to go in would have said it was one more than the reasonable maximum.

@TrippinEdBalls

But yes my colleagues are hoping for a more flexible work policy than 3 days a week which seems like a controversial opinion here. I agree that 3 days a week in office is not necessary for my industry. I think they would keep a lot of people happy even if they reduced it by one day to 2.

I would bet a lot of money that whatever number of days the company had said, the colleagues who are now refusing to go in would have said it was one more than the reasonable maximum.

This is definitely the case at my work. Policy of coming in for one day every two weeks is still too much for some people.

Can’t speak for the OP’s work which does seem to have wider issues. But for mine, I fear what’s going to happen if enough people really dig their heels in when the orders are still pretty flexible, is that the organisation will respond by saying “okay flexibility didn’t work, we’ll start telling people what days to come in.” Which is not going to go down well with everyone else.

I’m fed up with this, I have three on my team who come up with every excuse under the sun to WFH full time. We’ve gone 3 days WFH, 2 office per week and I have a rota in place. I need people in the office, we deal with documents that need a wet signature from customers (both being sent out and received back into the office). We barely kept on top of this in lockdown, I was actually going into the office 5 days a week (as the Supervisor) to do all post despite it not really being my role.

These 3 staff members have come up with all sorts:
Dogs cannot be left
Petrol too expensive
No childcare (used a Childminder before)
Too noisy in the office
Bus times have changed
Have to get up earlier
Have to get dressed (yep!)
I’m pig sick of them all.
Thursday, one was due in to make sure all post was ready for Friday collection, never came and said ‘I got halfway to work and realised I’d left my pass at home so I wouldn’t have been able to print anything’ so may aswell just WFH.

That’s because she is behaving like a junior employee

No she isn't. A lot of people in this thread are acting like pursed-lipped dinosaurs, though.

@maddiemookins16mum

I’m fed up with this, I have three on my team who come up with every excuse under the sun to WFH full time. We’ve gone 3 days WFH, 2 office per week and I have a rota in place. I need people in the office, we deal with documents that need a wet signature from customers (both being sent out and received back into the office). We barely kept on top of this in lockdown, I was actually going into the office 5 days a week (as the Supervisor) to do all post despite it not really being my role.

These 3 staff members have come up with all sorts:
Dogs cannot be left
Petrol too expensive
No childcare (used a Childminder before)
Too noisy in the office
Bus times have changed
Have to get up earlier
Have to get dressed (yep!)
I’m pig sick of them all.
Thursday, one was due in to make sure all post was ready for Friday collection, never came and said ‘I got halfway to work and realised I’d left my pass at home so I wouldn’t have been able to print anything’ so may aswell just WFH.

They are massive CF

@maddiemookins16mum

I’m fed up with this, I have three on my team who come up with every excuse under the sun to WFH full time. We’ve gone 3 days WFH, 2 office per week and I have a rota in place. I need people in the office, we deal with documents that need a wet signature from customers (both being sent out and received back into the office). We barely kept on top of this in lockdown, I was actually going into the office 5 days a week (as the Supervisor) to do all post despite it not really being my role.

These 3 staff members have come up with all sorts:
Dogs cannot be left
Petrol too expensive
No childcare (used a Childminder before)
Too noisy in the office
Bus times have changed
Have to get up earlier
Have to get dressed (yep!)
I’m pig sick of them all.
Thursday, one was due in to make sure all post was ready for Friday collection, never came and said ‘I got halfway to work and realised I’d left my pass at home so I wouldn’t have been able to print anything’ so may aswell just WFH.

This isn’t a WFH issue. They need to be managed properly or managed out.

"Not sure why some people are so angry at the prospect of a long term change in work culture and attitudes towards flexible working compared to pre pandemic. If an industry allows flexible working then why not?"

I think if wfh is genuinely better then a strong case can be made.

However, so often it is the employees, who may not have an overview of the entire business, but who certainly do have a vested interest, who are saying this.

I feel it is the people who own or direct the business who get to decide how it operates.

No problem with staff being disappointed, I would be too, but the outright indignation at being asked to their job is a bit of a joke.

Also, anyone who has had truly appalling customer service from a range of businesses citing wfh for their failures is naturally sceptical of anyone saying wfh is just as good for the customer.

A colleague of mine can’t come in because of [insert reason] but says she works fine at home. She doesn’t. She asks someone to print her stuff. Someone else to scan things to her. Someone else to do xyz. It takes time out of our day because she has whatever reason not to come in.

I finally mentioned it to the boss in my appraisal. He suggested we were all mugs for putting up with it for so long (we’ve all been back in since 4 jan).

I don't think we can chalk up the major customer service issues due to wfh as 'going to the loo' occasionally, much as I'm sure you'd like to

I have no skin in the game, I don't ring call centres. My mother does and she has said it has been bad since way before covid. But now covid is used as an excuse for bad service.

And there were definitely lots of companies furloughing staff who shouldn't have been because there was demand for their staff to do work for customers.

And people can work perfectly well from home. I got a new internet line installed during the less strict phase of the first lockdown - all organised by people at Plusnet and Openreach working from home (other than the engineer who actually came out to install it, obviously).

Maybe they have better management than your cousin's company does?

Also, anyone who has had truly appalling customer service from a range of businesses citing wfh for their failures is naturally sceptical of anyone saying wfh is just as good for the customer

WFH isn't the reason. Furlough was one reason, reducing staff numbers to the bone was another reason. Bad management of people WFH is a third. Not WFH per se.

And of course, WFH during the lockdowns was not representative because people had poor working conditions, were trying to work while kids were home from school etc. It is totally different now. If companies are still using WFH as an excuse, I would suggest your gripe is with the poor leadership of that company and take your business to a company which manages its staff properly - whether they work in an office, at home, or on the beach.

Our office has demanded this, if you refuse they will take away the privilege that is flexible working altogether. This is what our contract states. So no flexi-time (which you can, if work allows, build up for a day off) no WFH (previous to covid 2 days a week) etc. So kick back and you will be in the office 9-5 5 days a week. Up to you!

@maddiemookins16mum Bus times changing might be true actually. Where I live we have no trains in the rush hour between 8.10 and 9.10 to London now!

If Boris wants us back in the office and eating lunch from Pret, he needs to sort out public transport.

The other "reasons" you give are laughable, however.