The way the Tory government are acting now makes it feel like all the lockdowns were a waste of time

[Poetrypatty]

Just lifting all the restrictions as if it was all a waste of time. It makes me feel like a mug for everything we went through, especially as they were having their parties and not even following the rules. I think it's bad for peoples mental health as well.

[quote Cornettoninja]@Giveaschitt an example of a reduction would be to end seven day contact testing and encourage use of LFT’s for symptomatic cases only. PCR’s could be reserved for those who are very ill and ordered by a doctor for confirmation for treatment purposes. There are steps available between testing at the current level and not testing at all.[/quote]
But that is essentially what is happening? You can continue to test until the end of March for free, and then after that, you can pay for tests if you feel you need to know whether your illness is covid or a different virus. They just won't be free anymore. Doctors will still be able to test in hospitals just as they do for flu.
What benefit do you think there is in people continuing to test for every cold? It's costing a fortune and it is no longer providing the benefit it did before. If you're ill, why do you need to know if it's covid or not?! You wouldn't go spreading your awful stinking cold around your vulnerable relatives just because "it's not covid" would you? So if you're ill, you're ill. The only reason to move even more gradually than we are is purely to ease people's anxiety.

You can continue to test until the end of March for free, and then after that, you can pay for tests if you feel you need to know whether your illness is covid or a different virus. They just won't be free anymore

We live in a country where at least 4.3 children live in poverty. People have to use food banks and can't afford heating. So they won't be able to afford tests either, and the poorest will be clobbered.

As we see with measles though, people still refuse the vaccination because they personally don't have experience of how bad it can be

Sorry to butcher your post in pieces @Brefugee but on this point I think it’s pertinent to point out that measles isn’t circulating anywhere near the scale that covid is. There is still an impact on measles outbreaks from people choosing not to vaccinate but it isn’t the same risk profile as choosing not to vaccinate for something that’s circulating in the numbers covid is. If covid had similar projections to the current status of measles (I had a quick look for the UK which projects 600k cases of measles annually) I would be all in for the measures the UK is currently implementing but vice versa I would be expecting action from the government if measles cases were as high as covid.

We just seem to swing wildly in our perspectives of the risks covid presents at any one time. Things have absolutely changed over the course of the pandemic but that’s why it makes no sense to me that the aim is to return to the exact same scenario prior to Covid’s existence. It does exist and it’s having an impact; dismissing it as comparable to the flu (which also impacts massively on healthcare provision and economically) also veers people away from questioning the government on how they’re going to build in permanent healthcare provision for the serious cases we do have and should expect from this point forward.

Oh no, i get it about measles. I was thinking it's more the mindset rather than measels actually being comparable (in any way apart from we have a vaccination against it) to Covid.

I think some good courses in risk perception would be good - it would help in so many areas where a panic outbreaks because a headline says something like "people who X are 25% more likely to get a boil on their bum compared to the rest of the population" where the chances of a boil on the bum are already vanishingly small (or relatively small, i have no idea) wher 25% of vanishingly small is still vanishingly small. If we all understood risk evaluation and statistics better it would be better for us all.

We live in a country where at least 4.3 children live in poverty. People have to use food banks and can't afford heating. So they won't be able to afford tests either, and the poorest will be clobbered

Why will they be clobbered? Testing is completely optional unless for work, in which case employers can pay for the tests. People will just do what they’ve always done when they have colds or flu or chest infections etc. Plenty of people haven’t used tests at all, or only very occasionally and their lives are still continuing fine.

Ya b completely unreasonable.
We had restrictions at times when the virus was rife, there were large numbers of deaths and hospitals were being over whelmed.
Now none of the above is true and the virus is milder than previously.
I appreciate that a lot of masochists are desperate for restrictions to go on forever but most people just want life to go back to normal.

This ^

And the most important thing, we have all had the chance to be vaccinated three times which reduces our chance of dying (or ending up in intensive care) massively.

@Giveaschitt

What benefit do you think there is in people continuing to test for every cold? It's costing a fortune and it is no longer providing the benefit it did before. If you're ill, why do you need to know if it's covid or not?!

I don’t think that ‘everyone’ would test for every little cold for a start, there’s already a shift in people doing that. However, for people who covid does present a risk for the treatments that are available time is of the essence. People delaying diagnosis impacts the effectiveness of what treatments we do have available.

Ending access to LFT’s in April means that there will be people who will be further into disease progression before they’re able to access a diagnosis and reduce the effectiveness of what we do have available. That impacts the poorest, a substantial number of whom will be elderly/disabled if the costs of tests are prohibitive or difficult to access.

As I’ve already said, we can’t make any meaningful predictions on the standard projection of disease prevalence but currently it’s much higher than flu/measles/chicken pox etc. prevalence of covid alone is justification for easy access to LFT’s for a further period of time, certainly until we have a significant period of stability whether that’s at higher or lower numbers.

and why will the poorest be clobbered?

The economy will move forward, the jobs market will continue to improve, schools will be open, the result of the economy growing again is more tax receipts....so your comment is just silly.

There is no magic money tree we all have to get back to work!

@Poetrypatty

You can continue to test until the end of March for free, and then after that, you can pay for tests if you feel you need to know whether your illness is covid or a different virus. They just won't be free anymore

We live in a country where at least 4.3 children live in poverty. People have to use food banks and can't afford heating. So they won't be able to afford tests either, and the poorest will be clobbered.

But very few people will need to test - the vast majority of people who want to carry on testing are doing so to appease their own anxiety, so this really isn't relevant here.

We should also be discouraging pointless testing because of the obscene amount of plastic waste they create. Providing them for free isn’t cost effective for the country any more. The amount they cost to provide doesn’t give good value for money anymore compared to the benefit they have to the population as a whole.

But very few people will need to test - the vast majority of people who want to carry on testing are doing so to appease their own anxiety

I agree with this. After the messaging we’ve had for two years I get it’s hard but it’s costing an absolute fortune, plus other downsides to isolation.

But very few people will need to test - the vast majority of people who want to carry on testing are doing so to appease their own anxiety, so this really isn't relevant here

Again, the recent major usage of tests was due to government policies of early release for the infected from isolation and 7 day contact testing. Remove those requirements and the demand for LFT’s would reduce substantially, particularly without a legal requirement to isolate if infected, people who have no intention of changing their routines haven’t been testing anyway and they still won’t.

I think you’re dismissing people with general anxieties along with those who are wary for good reason. I think there are many more in the latter group than the former but that’s not provable either way.

I would worry about not testing before seeing a vulnerable relative in nursing home/hospital, but I guess I need to adjust my mindset. Would avoid visiting DF pre COVID when he had cancer if we had illnesses or had been knowingly around people with a contagious bug. But obviously we could have been around him after being with someone else who had been asymptomatic, I just wasn’t as aware that was a possibility, as everyone always said you would know if you had flu, but actually that isn’t the case

It’s not dismissive of people’s anxieties or wariness to stop free testing. Those people can continue to test for free for at least another month and when it’s properly Spring, if they want to test they can pay for it. If it’s not medically indicated, then there’s no reason why the state should pay for it.

We need to ensure that those who are most clinically vulnerable have access to as many free LFTs as they need, which may include when asymptomatic. Some of the savings made by not providing constant free access to asymptomatic lower risk people, which is a good thing, ought to fund this. I'm not up for continuing to subside people who think it's unethical to go to Tesco or get on a bus without one, but we need to ensure we provide what ECV people need.

Surely it is wise that the people visiting vulnerable people have access to tests too. Surely better to prevent them getting it in the first place

@toomuchlaundry

Surely it is wise that the people visiting vulnerable people have access to tests too. Surely better to prevent them getting it in the first place

Hmm, depends. Obviously medical staff, plus any carers paid and unpaid. The state continuing to pay for anyone who's visiting any 80 year old relative to test, that's where we'd need to see some costings.

Free lateral flow test kits are still available - I ordered some 10 minutes ago.

Only in up till the end of March. Then there's no more unless you pay £20 a box hmm nice little earner for someone

They were never 'free' they are paid for by taxpayers !

They were never 'free' they are paid for by taxpayers

Which the vast majority of people are.

So if some groups need to test regularly, it's only fair that they can access what they've essentially paid for, no?

Throwing vulnerable people under the bus because we had other priorities is what we've spent the last two years doing

Make that 12. Austerity threw anyone who had the temerity to be poor under the bus but nobody gave a shit about that as long as their taxes didn’t go up. Now all of a sudden vulnerable people are important.

What about the ones that don’t pay tax then @LadyMuckOfCowshitFarm? Or the ones who only pay a minimal amount of VAT out of their benefits?

If they have genuine need to test regularly, should they or shouldn’t they receive free tests in your world?

Unfortunately your argument doesn’t work. Plenty of people who pay tax are denied services they should have on the state already. Paying tax makes no difference.

@FairyCakeWings

It’s not dismissive of people’s anxieties or wariness to stop free testing. Those people can continue to test for free for at least another month and when it’s properly Spring, if they want to test they can pay for it. If it’s not medically indicated, then there’s no reason why the state should pay for it.

But medically indicated is affected by disease prevalence. Which is high, and going off the experience of the last two years will climb higher again as we go into next autumn.

The most anxious who can’t afford/access tests aren’t going to save any money because they will access healthcare in other ways to ease their anxieties. I don’t think providing LFT’s for individually deemed appropriate use is going to outweigh what the cost will be to the strain going to the GP/walk ins/A&E from the worried well.

I recognise that there are absolutely people who are anxious without logical cause to be, but they don’t stop being anxious because they can’t access a simple test, they go another route. That, what I believe to be minuscule, misuse of resource isn’t a good enough reason to give up the other benefits such as early diagnosis and effective treatments for those who do need them and would choose to use them.

To add another facet, long covid and increased risks for other health issues following a covid infection are still with us even with omicron and vaccinations, without testing it’s going to make it harder for HCP’s to follow a logical route of ruling out diagnoses if there are less confirmed cases.

@FairyCakeWings

It’s not dismissive of people’s anxieties or wariness to stop free testing. Those people can continue to test for free for at least another month and when it’s properly Spring, if they want to test they can pay for it. If it’s not medically indicated, then there’s no reason why the state should pay for it.

For many people asymptomatic testing is medically indicated.

What are they to do when tests are no longer free, and they can't afford to buy them?

I recognise that there are absolutely people who are anxious without logical cause to be, but they don’t stop being anxious because they can’t access a simple test, they go another route.

They don’t stop being anxious because they do get free tests either though.

The rates of infection are going down, and we know they will lower even further over spring and summer. If we genuinely need them again next Autumn/Winter we can have them back then having saved I don’t know how much money by not handing them out free in the summer.

It’s worth looking at the negative effects of free testing too. I know a lot of people that have sat at home feeling perfectly healthy while their businesses/classes/colleagues have struggled without them. It’s ridiculous and we need to stop this insane practice of fit healthy people being on sick leave.

@Blossomtoes

Throwing vulnerable people under the bus because we had other priorities is what we've spent the last two years doing

Make that 12. Austerity threw anyone who had the temerity to be poor under the bus but nobody gave a shit about that as long as their taxes didn’t go up. Now all of a sudden vulnerable people are important.

Well, quite.

We accelerated it once covid came along, mind. The way in which austerity fucked over women did stop short of locking DV victims away with abusers. What the Tories have done to schools in the past decade is disgusting, but my DC were at least permitted to go to one. They did fuck all about obesogenic environments because tackling them would've been inconvenient to some of their rich mates, and even then they pursued lockdown policies that led to increased rates of child obesity. That type of thing.