To not want to an out of hours work meeting at 7:30am?

[Hop27]

I work in a small leadership team, and generally speaking we offer flexibility around meeting times so that is suits all of the team. We used to hold a meeting at 7:30am for 1 hour on a Friday, so that it didn’t interrupt our billable client time. But one of our team moved onto a 4 day week, so we moved the meeting to mid-week at 8:30am to suit them, but we did condense the meeting into 30 minutes. The person who worked a 4 day week has now left and our manager wants the meeting back on a Friday at 7:30am. AIBU to request for the meeting not to be moved? I have a fitness related commitment which I would not be able to do, if I had to be in the office at 7:30am? I could rearrange my routine, but honestly I don’t want to. I like getting up at 5, to go to this class and not having to take a gym bag to work (and lug it round with me if I go out for Friday drinks). My contracted hours are 8:30-5pm, but we are always expected to do more outside of those. AIBU to request the meeting isn’t moved or should I just accept the change to avoid a potential conflict?

@Fluffy40

Nurses have a meeting day at 7am, just saying,

Is that not part of their shift though?

I have earned above the quoted number (with inflation) for 20 years. I choose to go in early (in 730) and may stay half an hour late some days. Again my choice.

These salaries are supposed to pay for skills and experience, not attendance.

I have also changed jobs where the culture wasn't for me.

@Fluffy40

Nurses have a meeting day at 7am, just saying,

Is this outside of your working hours @Fluffy40 ?

An ex manager would schedule staff meetings in London for 7.30am and 8am, used to really piss me off especially if I'd been on an international call/meeting late at night. It was as if I wasn't allowed a life.

I would just say it no longer suits me. In my first professional job we had a 7.45am meeting every Monday, to be outside billable hours. It was freaking awful. I hated it, like you they also expected us to work well outside out contacted hours. I felt guilty if I left at 17.30, and it was really badly paid (because I was a trainee).

Don't give a reason just "I'm afraid that does not work with my schedule, I found the 8.30am meeting mid week worked very well , perhaps we can keep this?"

I think no harm in asking. However if you are in a well paid, professional environment then it is generally expected that you might need to work more than your contract says (contracts usually say this may be necessary)nand yes that might include a meeting at 7:30am. I have had jobs where the same thing has been a weekly requirement in the past, the time was because there were a lot of senior attendees and it would be hard to find a time to suit everyone during the day.

@Campervangirl

I'm just about to join my 7:30 am Monday meeting 🙄 The person I have it with is on approx 3 times my wage but the meeting time suits his schedule. Sometimes he doesn't show up and never let's me know, sometimes the meeting lasts 10 minutes, complete waste of my time. It used to be 3 meetings a week but we've got it down to one, I feel you're pain op, I dread this meeting, I have to get up at 5am, no time for breakfast, it starts my whole week off wrong.

I’d be eating my breakfast during the meeting - maybe a big bowl of crunchy nut cornflakes - as I’d assume it was a ‘breakfast’ meeting at that time!

Its not unreasonable for senior management BUT if you have managed it in half the time at a more reasonable hour one has to question the validity of this. I would bounce back that the current set up works well for you, we don't spend too much time debating small things and you now have other commitments for the Friday personal time. At the moment you do not see a compelling reason for change.

I would say the 8.30 half hour slot has worked well for you and you see no reason to change it.

Only you know the dynamic of the team and how much risk you are at by digging your heels in.

Personally i would wtf at the "we want you to do UN billable work in your own time for free so we can get more money from the clients"
But ultimately it's a team culture thing and a question of do you fit in.
By all means dig your heels in and i certainly would, but if you don't fit the culture you could eventually feel like you don't fit in and want to leave

If the meeting currently works ok on Thursday, try and keep it there. Maybe see if it can be brought forward to 8am if there is a feeling you need to go back to the full hour long meeting.

But you would be entitled to say that, as it is outside working hours, you now have a commitment at that time on a Friday which has only arisen since the previous meeting time was changed. So push back on reverting to the Friday.

It still shows you willing to attend and do what's needed, but you are allowed to have some boundaries too.

I agree with a PP that most lawyers I know wouldn't do a 7.30am regular work meeting!

but as @johnd2 says - why are you working in your own time doing unbillable time for free so you can get more money frm the clients?!

Agreed re team culture and eventually feeling like not fitting in and leaving.

This is the kind of thing employers need to cop on with now people have realised that actually having a work/life balance is achievable.

I work in HR and the amount of movement I’m seeing through LinkedIn with former colleagues leaving our shared ex-employer to go elsewhere for more flexibility is unreal.

It’s outside your contracted hours of employment. If the leadership team can’t schedule meetings within their staffs’ working hours then they need to reconsider how they utilise their time, not expect their team to work for free.

If its been going reasonably well at 8:30 just say you want to stick with the 8:30 as you've now other commitments on Friday morning.

Nearly everywhere I've worked would expect a bloke to move that.

It's outside the OPs contracted hours. I understand that in some jobs extra hours are involved, but in my own experience that's on a flexible basis (with some people starting their day early, others staying late) rather than for a mandated meeting.

Tell them it would clash with your paper-round.

It does seem like they've just thought 'oh well, we can go back to normal now' without questioning the value of that and if the new arrangement actually works better. I would use Daisy's wording about it as other pp have said. And I agree also on the bit about working for free. You're not really earning as much as you seem to be anyway if it involves so many hours outside the standard.

So they want to plan a weekly meeting that’s in your own personal time, they moved the meeting to fall on a day as someone didn’t work Fridays but think it’s acceptable to plan it in a time when you don’t work- absolutely not!

Is there anything you could possibly give instead? Would another day suit, another time, repurposing another meeting etc?

Where I work you can be given a 4 week notice of contract change to suit business needs, so if my boss decided thats when he wanted a meeting our contract would be changed if we said no. The exception would be caring commitments not the gym.

Even as lawyer in private practice I would have kicked off about this. Even 9am was a struggle ! (But then regularly didn't finish until 9/10)

@sweeneytoddsrazor

Where I work you can be given a 4 week notice of contract change to suit business needs, so if my boss decided thats when he wanted a meeting our contract would be changed if we said no. The exception would be caring commitments not the gym.

It’s irrelevant what your internal processes are- your employer still needs your consent to make any changes to your contract. OP can with hold this if that’s the avenue they go down.

OP’s boss is unlikely to go through the hassle of changing multiple contracts over the timing of an internal morning meeting when they can just stick with the status quo.

You'll just get a lot of work-to-rule people commenting who don't get that out of hours work is normal and expected in senior positions in some fields. Once you've ignored them , there is some good advice on this thread. I think post pandemic pre-9am meetings are less likely as people are doing school dropoffs in a way they never used to.

Could you suggest end of play on Thursday? 6pm-6-30?

If they don't want to do it in 'billable' time, they're basically saying it's in your own time!

I work in a job where we have billable hours, but you will never bill 100% of your contracted hours - it simply isn't possible. Stuff has to happen relating to the running of the business - you don't spend your entire time on client work!

Regular meetings should be within core hours. End of. Occasional/one off things can be out of hours if they need to be. The email shouldn't be apologetic, or give a reason - you have nothing to apologise for.

Would people who are saying OP should just do it also think she should do a 6pm meeting? That's the same difference (as an encroachment on OP's time), but I bet people would be more up in arms about that.

Who is it being moved to suit?
If everyone has been doing the 8:30am on weds for this long, then why move it, just for the sake of it?

If the flexibility was available before, then maybe just say that, owing to other commitments, 7:30am on Fridays is no longer convenient for you.

See what happens.