Child maintenance

[Lalala1]

Posting here for traffic!

The amount of threads on mn surrounding child maintenance I’ve noticed there’s completely opposite opinions on it.
Some find the way it’s calculated fair some don’t.
Some say it doesn’t cover everything and “certain things should be split” out with cms.
Some say people get too much because they only get lower and are “greedy ex wives” so they should be grateful.
Some say the rules around calculations are wrong and should be changed.

So I’m curious if you were in charge of cms what would/should it be?
How should it be calculated?
Should it cover everything or not?
How would it or could it be changed to be fair for all children?
Or
Is the way it is set up and conducted fine as it is?

Just putting this for vote

YABU- cms is fine as it is no change
YANBU - cms should be changed and how?

Yellowshirt My daughter pays over £600 a month for childcare in order to work. Your suggestion of £250 doesn’t cover half of that let alone housing, food, clothing, entertaining and educating.

Its a tough decision to get the balance of payment right but on an earlier thread today about child maintenance people seemed to be agreeing that average costs for a child per month was about £350.

I'm paying I would say more than the resident parent in my eyes yet my 16 year old daughter is being fed a pack of lies by her poisonous mother who continues to plead poverty.

Children should be involved in the child maintenance over a certain age..
By the government calculations of 16% mine and my Ex wifes salaries means my daughter has £1300 per month. What is my Ex wife contributing out of her salary? The extra money would cover university, driving lessons and a car over the 5 years we have been split up by the time my daughter is 18.

My sister has chosen not to work due to child care costs. Your daughter has chosen to work . Only she knows whether its the rignt decsion for her family.

Your comment makes no sense.

@Yellowshirt
Children should be involved in the child maintenance over a certain age..

What does this mean?

Yellowshirt It is always preferable for a single parent to work. It is unreasonable that the NRP pays less than his or her fair share of the childcare costs to enable it.

average costs for a child per month was about £350.

Which thread and based on what?

Children should be involved in the child maintenance over a certain age.

18?

The extra money

What money is "extra"? Your maintenance?!

Teens cost a bloody fortune! And also are you not wanting your child to go to uni? Or are you expecting your ex and the state to support her without your input if she does?

Spooner I'm afraid I'm going to flat out contradict you. I'd LOVE my ex to take genuine 50/50. I have 4 single mum friends in very similar positions. We are professional, full time workers who would like to climb the ladder, have hobbies, dates, go round tesco alone or not rushing back cos we've left tweens alone. But our exes, in very similar jobs actively do not want more than eow at best. And when they are asked to sort the occasional appointment or haircut or shoe purchase they refuse / forget / fuck it up.

I don't even know where to start with Yellowshirt. Stop thinking purely in terms of £££. How many mornings do you get your DD off for school and yourself into work suited and booted on time? How many nights do you enforce a homework time, phone away, tidy your room routine before cooking dinner, tidying the house and working (your ex is dep head.. She'll be working in the evening). How many times do you play taxi for your DD to a hobby or social event? How often do you wash her uniform or clothes at 30 mins notice because she must have THAT top? Get the idea?

@Yellowshirt

Its a tough decision to get the balance of payment right but on an earlier thread today about child maintenance people seemed to be agreeing that average costs for a child per month was about £350.

I'm paying I would say more than the resident parent in my eyes yet my 16 year old daughter is being fed a pack of lies by her poisonous mother who continues to plead poverty.

Children should be involved in the child maintenance over a certain age..
By the government calculations of 16% mine and my Ex wifes salaries means my daughter has £1300 per month. What is my Ex wife contributing out of her salary? The extra money would cover university, driving lessons and a car over the 5 years we have been split up by the time my daughter is 18.

If we go along with your theory 16% of each parents income your £16% £300 get 16% £552 where does the £1300 come from?

It 100% costs more than £350 to raise a child but You never answered my question what is that “£350” supposed to cover??

@Graphista

average costs for a child per month was about £350.

Which thread and based on what?

Children should be involved in the child maintenance over a certain age.

18?

The extra money

What money is "extra"? Your maintenance?!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/divorce_separation/4486386-What-does-Child-Maintenance-cover?msgid=115307362

I think he means this thread @Graphista

@IstayedForTheFeminism I've been paying child maintenance every month since my daughter was 13. She is now 16 yet she still thinks mum pays for everything and dad isn't contributing. How is that fair?

I just think if she had a basic understanding of child maintenance and maybe even had access to bits of it at least it would help her as she gets older and has to look after her own finances.

She has just started her own part time job but she has no idea about the value of money.

[quote Yellowshirt]@IstayedForTheFeminism I've been paying child maintenance every month since my daughter was 13. She is now 16 yet she still thinks mum pays for everything and dad isn't contributing. How is that fair?

I just think if she had a basic understanding of child maintenance and maybe even had access to bits of it at least it would help her as she gets older and has to look after her own finances.

She has just started her own part time job but she has no idea about the value of money.[/quote]
So you want your daughter to pay her mum money towards bills? Or are you saying your money only pays for exciting things?

@Yellowshirt

Its a tough decision to get the balance of payment right but on an earlier thread today about child maintenance people seemed to be agreeing that average costs for a child per month was about £350.

I'm paying I would say more than the resident parent in my eyes yet my 16 year old daughter is being fed a pack of lies by her poisonous mother who continues to plead poverty.

Children should be involved in the child maintenance over a certain age..
By the government calculations of 16% mine and my Ex wifes salaries means my daughter has £1300 per month. What is my Ex wife contributing out of her salary? The extra money would cover university, driving lessons and a car over the 5 years we have been split up by the time my daughter is 18.

This has it all, paying most for the child (on £350 a month which is amazing) a poisonous ex (standard) the child thinks mum buys everything (how if you see her regularly?) 'pleading poverty' (you forgot to mention she uses 'your money' for hair and nails while the kid lives on weetabix and clothes that are 3 sizes too small.

I think what it boils down to is that you don't think you should contribute because your ex earns more than you.

Of your dd doesn't know the value of mo ex then I woukd say that's a parenting fail tbh,I guess that's solely down to your ex too?

@Lalala1 . If I'm contributing over £300 and my Ex just matched that £300 which is nowhere near 16 % of her salary the minimum my daughter would have for her essentials Food , housing etc etc would be £600.
How much do you need then for one 16 year old child who is aldo working part time and wanting her own independence?

@Graphista How much is a bloody fortune though ? I mean on average. I don't want to argue as I no children are expensive but roughly how much?

I hope Baroness Stedman-Scott reads this post. Perhaps MN could send it to her.

The CMS is a fucked up broken system. It is not a 'service'. It panders to the misogyny that is rife in modern Britain.

@ABCeasyasdohrayme .
Please answer my question. How much would you estimate it costs per month to bring up a 16 year old?

On my poisonous Ex. I was beaten up by her leaving me with a black eye. I was also financially abused for 8 years from 2010 to 2018 resulting in 3 CCJS for myself and I lost absolutely everything and she went unpunished.

I see my daughter at weekends when I'm not working. It is usually a cup of tea in McDonald's as she refuses to visit me in a bedsit. which I understand. We speak every day on the phone. See above for the 6 man bedsit.

My daughter does not receive a single penny of the child maintenance I pay her mother.

I have never said I shouldn't pay maintenance. I just want my daughter to understand I work bloody hard to provide for her..

Regarding me explaining finances to my daughter. How can I explain that stuff when she knows I can't get a mortgage and she thinks its normal to splash the cash( sometimes not even your own cash) because she watches her mum still doing it.

@Yellowshirt Define reasonable amount? Seeing as I pay more than £300 in childcare alone a month just so I can work, I'm wondering what you think she uses to pays for clothes, food, energy, transportation, fuel, heating, water, shoes, uniform, dentists, toys / books, activities, socializing, holiday clubs, housing that your child needs? On that salary she will be eligible for a grand total of nothing by way of benefits, likely not even child benefit. She uses her salary and likely most of it. You sound like you resent what you perceive to be ''giving her money'' and fail to comprehend that you have a joint responsibility to provide all that your child needs. The fact your ex earns more than you doesn't absolve you of this joint responsibility.

Also 16% of a 60K after pension contributions + £350 does not equal £1300... it equals ~ £750 before tax & NI, so roughly £450-500 in pocket. If your ex wife can house, clothe, feed, entertain your child, pay for any childcare and cover all bills associated with putting a roof over your joint child's head all for £850 a month with no benefits then I'd like you to invite her to this thread to tell all us single mums how she does it please.

I'd really like to learn how to ringfence my salary so I can have bucket loads of cash to spend on spray tans, dying my hair, acrylic nails and shoes.

[quote Yellowshirt]@IstayedForTheFeminism I've been paying child maintenance every month since my daughter was 13. She is now 16 yet she still thinks mum pays for everything and dad isn't contributing. How is that fair?

I just think if she had a basic understanding of child maintenance and maybe even had access to bits of it at least it would help her as she gets older and has to look after her own finances.

She has just started her own part time job but she has no idea about the value of money.[/quote]
Oh I see what you mean. I had the opposite in that my ex was telling the dc I was living the high life on money he gave me for them (back when he actually paid.)

However, unless she's sitting in an unheated room eating bread and water and wearing the only outfit she owns then she does have access to the money you pay. It might not be in the form of cash in hand, but she is benefitting from it.

She'll soon learn the value of money now she's got a job.

@sofakingcool. No I'm not daft. I'm not saying I want her paying her own Gas and electricity but she should have a clear understanding of the basics rather than money being denied or hidden.

My daughter does not receive a single penny of the child maintenance I pay her mother.

My dad's family used to make comments like this about the money my dad paid when I was a teen. At the time I hated my mum. Couldn't understand why I couldn't have money for the cinema/McDonald's like my friends did. After all my Dad paid maintenance which I was entitled to.
As an adult I can see that my mum did everything for us. I did 5 dance classes per week. All had different uniform and shoes. Then the cost of exams. I also attended drama clubs and Brownies/Guides which were paid for and had costume/uniform costs. Plus swimming lessons.

My brothers did swimming/judo/cubs/scouts.
Plus she paid the mortgage on the house. And all the bills. Fed and clothed us 99% of the time.

I might not have physically received a penny in maintenance, but I'm damn sure it was spent on me and my brothers.

I have my differences with my mum, but I'm damn fucking sure she's a hero for doing everything she did and never ever letting on that my dad contributed the bare minimum he could get away with.

So...I've gone on the cms calculator which shows yellowshirt based on eow contact (which we don't know if he has) and no deduction for additional children where he lives now based on what he CLAIMS he is paying in maintenance on this thread earns approx £3000 a month

On another thread he says he pays £370 but that may be due to wage fluctuation?

It's late I'm having a little supper then going to sleep but I do actually have my old budget spreadsheets from when my dd was 16 5 years ago so I'll fire up the laptop tomorrow and have a look.

I'm honestly not fobbing you off @Yellowshirt but it is late

I'm disabled and on benefits so money has always been tight, I was able to work when she was younger but then my health - and hers - deteriorated

I do remember this age was so expensive and difficult. They're into "adult" sized clothes and shoes (this needs evaluated by govt too) so then you're paying vat so more expensive, they're needing tech etc for homework, they're socialising more akin to an adult, with more adult costs there, they're eating you out of house and home! (IIRC teens need approx 20% more cals than adults) my dd is TINY and with boys it's even more so I know it's astonishing how much they eat! They're showering more cos they're sweating more/dealing with periods etc

And that's all ON TOP of what you've been paying all their lives for housing, heating etc

@grandmashotdoodlebugs she did a session on mn asking for experiences etc and iirc was precious little use and avoided the most controversial issues - quelle surprise!

[quote Yellowshirt]@ABCeasyasdohrayme .
Please answer my question. How much would you estimate it costs per month to bring up a 16 year old?

On my poisonous Ex. I was beaten up by her leaving me with a black eye. I was also financially abused for 8 years from 2010 to 2018 resulting in 3 CCJS for myself and I lost absolutely everything and she went unpunished.

I see my daughter at weekends when I'm not working. It is usually a cup of tea in McDonald's as she refuses to visit me in a bedsit. which I understand. We speak every day on the phone. See above for the 6 man bedsit.

My daughter does not receive a single penny of the child maintenance I pay her mother.

I have never said I shouldn't pay maintenance. I just want my daughter to understand I work bloody hard to provide for her..

Regarding me explaining finances to my daughter. How can I explain that stuff when she knows I can't get a mortgage and she thinks its normal to splash the cash( sometimes not even your own cash) because she watches her mum still doing it.[/quote]
There is no one 'price' to bring up a 16yo.

One of my dc is 17, so I need a house with a room for him, so that's probably an extra £30 pw in rent, extra electric, food, then there's the clothes, extra place on holidays, shoes, coats, money for college lunches, now he has a pretty good job so pays for extras himself (because his dad is a deadbeat). Your £350 a month towards your child, which will end in a couple of years anyway is a dent compared to the actual cost.

I am very sorry to read you ex beat you up and financially abused you, however I am very surprised that you were happy to leave your daughter with this violent manipulative woman.

If your dd can understand you can't get a mortgage then she can understand basic finances. She has a job which clearly means she does know more than you're letting on about money, perhaps her mum has been teaching her.

The money you pay is a contribution to the cost of raising a child, why should she see actual money when she is warm, and fed, and clothed and in a house?

Honestly you just sound aggrieved because you think £350 is too much, when it really, really isn't.

@Pinkyxx But every house will be different. My daughter at 16 doesn't need child care.
People seem to forget the previous years as well when I gave my Ex every single penny I earned.

I dont resent paying the money. I don't like the fact my daughter doesn't understand I pay it and what its for.

There is no balance to child maintenance. If I'm in a bedsit and my Ex is having 3 or 4 holidays a year something is wrong.

I do see when you put it like that about your childcare fees need to be accounted for. I will hold my hands up to that one. I didn't realise they were that expensive.