Child maintenance

[Lalala1]

Posting here for traffic!

The amount of threads on mn surrounding child maintenance I’ve noticed there’s completely opposite opinions on it.
Some find the way it’s calculated fair some don’t.
Some say it doesn’t cover everything and “certain things should be split” out with cms.
Some say people get too much because they only get lower and are “greedy ex wives” so they should be grateful.
Some say the rules around calculations are wrong and should be changed.

So I’m curious if you were in charge of cms what would/should it be?
How should it be calculated?
Should it cover everything or not?
How would it or could it be changed to be fair for all children?
Or
Is the way it is set up and conducted fine as it is?

Just putting this for vote

YABU- cms is fine as it is no change
YANBU - cms should be changed and how?

My daughter does not receive a single penny of the child maintenance I pay her mother.

That's also goady nonsense!

Just because she isn't given it in cash doesn't mean she doesn't get it! She gets it in the form of a roof over her head, energy, water, clothes, uniform, school equipment, books, transport...

I just want my daughter to understand I work bloody hard to provide for her..

As does her mother

My ex at one point told dd how much he "paid" in cm (when he bothered to pay at all! He quoted the amount he was SUPPOSED to pay each month) which to her young mind (she was 9/10 at the time!) seemed a huge amount! She then thought this meant that she could get various toys and days out etc paid for by daddy's money! So I had to sit her down and explain that having a roof over her head etc cost money and I even broke it down for her in simple terms so she could understand it wasn't the fortune he was making out!

Dick!

I was always honest with dd, but quite honestly that was a real dick move she was too young for that conversation but he left me no choice

Plus tbh teens are perfect little narcs! They view everything in terms of how it affects them and how they can work it to their advantage 

You're really giving your dd the perfect ammo to play you off against each other to her advantage!

After all my Dad paid maintenance which I was entitled to.

Ohhhh yes

I might not have physically received a penny in maintenance, but I'm damn sure it was spent on me and my brothers.

Exactly the point!

There is no balance to child maintenance. If I'm in a bedsit and my Ex is having 3 or 4 holidays a year something is wrong.

You're right - but it's generally in favour of the nrps!

She earns more than you cos she made different choices to you career wise.

I see from other threads you're ex military.

I'm from a military family and ex is ex military too.

There's tons of opportunities to gain further and higher education in the military you've chosen not to do that - but you could have.

My ex made the same choice because basically he is lazy, his 2nd wife (whip was both other woman, a friend of mine previously AND His subordinate when they had the affair - yep shit hit the fan there!) also military has taken advantage of the same opportunities he had and is currently working on her phd while on a full military salary which is a good salary because her undergraduate and masters means she's been able to work up from enlisted to getting her Commision etc - good for her!

He's now "retired" from the military because he fucked his career up and couldn't get the promotions he needed in order to be able to sign up until actual retirement age, He's now working part time in a nmw job because he's lazy and thinks certain jobs are "beneath him" -

@Yellowshirt I'm sure you know the type! Joined up cos he didn't bother at school, so couldn't get a decent job on civvy street, did the bare minimum while in military and called those who went the extra mile (which is necessary to get promotions) and understood that the social aspect was important "brown noses"

HUGE chip on his shoulder, raised middle class and went to private school etc but took it all for granted and now thinks the world owes him

and yes - I do now wonder wtf I ever saw in him!

@ABCeasyasdohrayme. Thankyou for explaining things to me a bit better.

I'm not aggrieved about paying towards my daughter. I do understand how I may come across though.

I did try and remove my daughter but you hit the nail on the head with manipulation. Also a lack of support from authorities meant I couldn't win against an assistant head teacher of a secondary school.

Oh...and at the time ex told dd about the "fortune" he was paying in cm I was paying for and doing ALL the travelling from one end of the country to another staying in - and paying for - at least 2 nights in hotels in order that he saw his child at all! Yes I was a mug!

@Graphista. Your last paragraph just sent shivers down my spine. I think thats why alot of people including me join the military. You just literally described my couple of years in the military!!!

I feel you're conflating unrelated topics.

This thread is about child maintenance not spouse maintenance. Your child lives with your ex wife, she has had to do the caring, make the sacrifices and ultimately ensure your child has all she needs (your view of what she needs may differ to your ex-wife's). You assume she lives an easy life, do you think being an assistant head is easy? I can assure you they work bloody hard, long hours. I work long hours and I know how demanding it is, how exhausting it is - and what it is like to then care for a child alone on top and the worry of everything falling on my shoulders. You have only yourself to consider.

I completely understand you would like your daughter to be grateful and recognize your hard work. If you believe your ex has told her you don't contribute, then feel free to correct her and demonstrate you do. Be prepared however that it won't change anything. She is a teenager and doesn't owe you anything. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true - children don't owe their parents a debt of gratitude simply for raising them. Teenagers are egocentric & entitled by nature your expectation for gratitude is naïve at best.. and simply serves to justify you feeling sorry for yourself. If you think a teenager is easy or cheap to raise, you are very much mistaken. This all suggests to me you really don't have any involvement in parenting her or any real understanding of the endless expenses. I've had to replace all my daughters clothing twice in the last year - she's growing! This has cost me a fortune before I consider shoes, uniform, gym kit etc. My daughter doesn't get cash in hand from maintenance - I use it to raise her. It's absolutely absurd to suggest that unless your daughter gets the money in her hand that it is not being used for her.

You say you ''gave'' your ex every penny you earned. Did you really? £350 is a drop in the ocean, and honestly I can understand why your ex-wife may feel she shoulders the burden of raising your joint child. It's not just the cost, it's the time, the constraints, the emotional toll. Perhaps you pooled your money when you were still together, but this was not giving your ex 'every penny' - it was you contributing to your household. Fine, you have less earning power but that does not mean you should have no responsibility either then or now.

I can't understand why you feel this is unfair to you, why you think she owes you anything or you resent her taking holidays? On what basis do you feel she ought to subsidize your life so you can enjoy the same comforts she does apart? You made choices, choices which led to where you are and what you earn. Based on the CMS you claim you pay you earn a fair wage, more than the median wage therefore it's interesting to me that you claim yourself to be impoverished.

If you don't like your life, change it - you have no responsibility other than yourself and are therefore free to change career, re-qualify etc. A luxury no single mother has. If were the NRP I would be earning 3 times what I am and living a very different life. I could not, and cannot, do this as I had a child for whom I was (and remain) 100% responsible. My life & career choices were irrevocably changed.

@Pinkyxx

I feel you're conflating unrelated topics.

This thread is about child maintenance not spouse maintenance. Your child lives with your ex wife, she has had to do the caring, make the sacrifices and ultimately ensure your child has all she needs (your view of what she needs may differ to your ex-wife's). You assume she lives an easy life, do you think being an assistant head is easy? I can assure you they work bloody hard, long hours. I work long hours and I know how demanding it is, how exhausting it is - and what it is like to then care for a child alone on top and the worry of everything falling on my shoulders. You have only yourself to consider.

I completely understand you would like your daughter to be grateful and recognize your hard work. If you believe your ex has told her you don't contribute, then feel free to correct her and demonstrate you do. Be prepared however that it won't change anything. She is a teenager and doesn't owe you anything. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true - children don't owe their parents a debt of gratitude simply for raising them. Teenagers are egocentric & entitled by nature your expectation for gratitude is naïve at best.. and simply serves to justify you feeling sorry for yourself. If you think a teenager is easy or cheap to raise, you are very much mistaken. This all suggests to me you really don't have any involvement in parenting her or any real understanding of the endless expenses. I've had to replace all my daughters clothing twice in the last year - she's growing! This has cost me a fortune before I consider shoes, uniform, gym kit etc. My daughter doesn't get cash in hand from maintenance - I use it to raise her. It's absolutely absurd to suggest that unless your daughter gets the money in her hand that it is not being used for her.

You say you ''gave'' your ex every penny you earned. Did you really? £350 is a drop in the ocean, and honestly I can understand why your ex-wife may feel she shoulders the burden of raising your joint child. It's not just the cost, it's the time, the constraints, the emotional toll. Perhaps you pooled your money when you were still together, but this was not giving your ex 'every penny' - it was you contributing to your household. Fine, you have less earning power but that does not mean you should have no responsibility either then or now.

I can't understand why you feel this is unfair to you, why you think she owes you anything or you resent her taking holidays? On what basis do you feel she ought to subsidize your life so you can enjoy the same comforts she does apart? You made choices, choices which led to where you are and what you earn. Based on the CMS you claim you pay you earn a fair wage, more than the median wage therefore it's interesting to me that you claim yourself to be impoverished.

If you don't like your life, change it - you have no responsibility other than yourself and are therefore free to change career, re-qualify etc. A luxury no single mother has. If were the NRP I would be earning 3 times what I am and living a very different life. I could not, and cannot, do this as I had a child for whom I was (and remain) 100% responsible. My life & career choices were irrevocably changed.

Forgot to tag @Yellowshirt

Let's take the emotion out of the conversation. NRPs who don't pay child maintenance are scum and should be outed by society etc but let's face it this about money and always will be RPs will always want more and how much is enough?

1. Why does the RP usually the mother get the say on when the NRP can have the children? Is this not a conflict of interest so will always suit the mother for the NRP to have them less

The default starting position should be automatically 50/50 then can be changed dependent on circumstances

1. The reality is most sensible NRPs will require the same size house so the utility bills, rent will nearly be the same.

1. From a NRP if you don't allow me to have the children 50/50 why should I then pay towards the costs of childcare to enable you to work? The RP always wants financial help but never offers extra days etc

1. The vast majority of RPs also get to claim child maintenance and child tax credits etc so it's never clear cut

1. Remember the child maintenance should be used to cover the essentials not lifestyle choices ie school clubs , trips etc

1. Why does the RP usually the mother get the say on when the NRP can have the children? Is this not a conflict of interest so will always suit the mother for the NRP to have them less

The default starting position should be automatically 50/50 then can be changed dependent on circumstances

The NRP has the option of going to court to argue for more contact. The reason there is no 50/50 starting-point is that decisions as to contact/residence are made in the best interests of the children. Parents don't have rights in relation to their children, only responsibilities, one of which is to financially provide.

5. Remember the child maintenance should be used to cover the essentials not lifestyle choices ie school clubs , trips etc

So children of separated parents should only be entitled to a subsistence standard of living with no enrichment activities whatsoever? Does divorce/separation make the children 'unworthy' in some way? Since they're her kids and she's left, they no longer deserve any treats or fun?

5. Remember the child maintenance should be used to cover the essentials not lifestyle choices ie school clubs , trips etc

I'd agree IF the NRP also then pays for half of these things but why should it not be if they won't? Why would any decent NRP not want their child to do activities and school trips?

I also don't get the "my child doesn't receive the money I send" comments.

What do people expect? The RP to put it into a separate bank account and only use that for purchasing food which only their child will eat, paying for clubs, clothes etc... Out of a separate account?

No, it would just go into the whole pot. A lot of which will be spent on your child.

My child benefit is paid into my bank account. I don't literally go out the same day and make sure I spend £84 on my son. But it's still spent on him because I spend a lot more than £84 on him every month!

Just because a RP dares to buy themselves a coat or a night out from the same bank account your maintenance is paid into doesn't mean it's not being spent on your child.

see my earlier post re RPs, including me desperately wanting 50/50 but NRP not being interested.
NRPS, if choosing to only see their kids at weekends or holidays don't need to be in catchment areas of good schools and don't need bedrooms as large as one which is occupied all the time.
Am genuinely [shocked] at the idea the NRP should not have to pay anything beyond a contribution to "essentials". So the child can go without hobbies, clubs, any kind of social life or pocket money, school trips and more than a couple of sets of non uniform clothes unless the RP pays for them all herself.
Oh and lastly, - maybe the "all RPs always want more" should tell you something about the current situation. Its inaccurate - some do ok with "sensible" NRPs who actually do get what it takes a raise a child but where it is true, 99% of the time it is because the CMS is woefully inadequate to match half the costs and doesn't touch the sides of the RPs loss of earning potential / pension.

I would have that if the NRP was paying ridiculously high maintenance every month of like 2k but their child was always in rags, eating junk and had no extra curricular activities whilst their RP was always out and on holidays in the latest designer brands.

But it's hilarious when you're paying something like £200 a month and you see your kid once a week to say "whaaah it's not spent on my child".

Of course it fucking is 🤣

4. The vast majority of RPs also get to claim child maintenance and child tax credits etc so it's never clear cut

Obviously, CMS should consider tax credits. It is only right the state should subsidize the NRPs financial responsibility towards their child by extending tax credits to the RP thus justifying reduced CMS and effectively absolving the NRP of that responsibility at the expense of the tax payer....

see my earlier post re RPs, including me desperately wanting 50/50 but NRP not being interested

That's a shame. I still don't think it's the norm though. I don't think most RPs would be happy with their co parent becoming the RP and them the NRP or even 50:50. I'd be devastated to not be my son's RP personally.

Do some NRPs really want to see receipts for exactly how their £200 a month is spent on the child?

Spooner you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Basically no-one gets 2k a month. Not that many get three figures, let alone 4. It is absolutely my experience among my single parent friends that NONE of the exes (all male) want 50/50. Far too inconvenient. The child has to work around them and their big important man job. And yes, many NRPs including one who I am surprised hasn't been on here yet called "Bus Driver" would love to see itemised receipts to prove "their" money isnt spent on the general household pot.

@ChiselandBits

Spooner you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Basically no-one gets 2k a month. Not that many get three figures, let alone 4. It is absolutely my experience among my single parent friends that NONE of the exes (all male) want 50/50. Far too inconvenient. The child has to work around them and their big important man job. And yes, many NRPs including one who I am surprised hasn't been on here yet called "Bus Driver" would love to see itemised receipts to prove "their" money isnt spent on the general household pot.

What are you talking about?

I wasn't suggesting anything bad by that 2k comment. I was replying to the poster who said "my daughter doesn't see a penny of my maintenance". I wasn't talking to you. Read it back...

It is absolutely my experience among my single parent friends that NONE of the exes (all male) want 50/50.

AND? It's my experience that none of my friends want their child's father to be the RP instead of them. Our experiences differ. That's okay...

How the fuck do you know whether I know what I'm talking about or not? 🤣

You're coming across as very my way or the highway in your replies. I've not even argued with you or said your experience isn't true. Just that I personally don't believe it's the norm for MOST RPs to actively WANT their co parent to take over as RP. You can disagree thats fine. It doesn't mean I have "no idea what I'm talking about".

Feel free not to reply.

I'm sure you can appreciate that RPs aren't solely made up by your friends and that your personal experience doesn't mean it's fact?

umm - likewise?

And AGAIN, my comment about the receipts was in disbelief at the poster implying their maintenance isn't spent on their daughter. It was not in support of NRPs in any way nor was I talking to you. Read my comments back before attacking me please.

and there's no need to swear. I was perfectly polite to you.

@ChiselandBits

umm - likewise?

Of course which is why I said IN MY OPINION.

Unlike you who told me I have clearly no idea what I'm talking about because I didn't agree with you and your friends 🤣

@ChiselandBits

and there's no need to swear. I was perfectly polite to you.

No. You weren't. You completely misunderstood the majority of my posts and then proceeded to tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about. That's not polite.

I'm an RP and I wouldn't want to become the NRP. I can't think of any mother who would want to live apart from her children & have them visit. I would have been open to 50/50 if it was a true division and collaboration, and if it worked for our child. This was never an option because ex moved so far away it's impossible unless getting a child up at 4am for the school run is considered ''in their best interests''.