Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

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I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

I dont think its judgey at all. People like me who have done it need to tell kids exactly HOW to do it otherwise the 'follow your dream' 'anyone can be anything's nonsense takes over. I love this advice, once you have the scaffolding to follow it.

PP have mentioned the careers of people around you, but I think it's also the other expectations from people around you, e.g. staying near home and having children young.

I was born on a large council estate. We moved away when I was 4, because my DF had found a better job in another town. My grandparents were upset that my parents were 'abandoning everyone'. Like many families, my family had lived in that town for generations. That closeness and support can be great, but I think MC families are more likely to encourage their children to move away for a better uni or a higher paid job.

I also taught in a school in a deprived area. When talking about where they see themselves in 5/10 years, the majority of the girls expected to have babies in their late teens or early twenties. Of course young parents can go on to high-paid jobs, but it's much harder to go to university or even college if you have to worry about childcare.

@AngelinaFibres

It's a confidence thing as much as anything. I worked with children in deprived areas for years. They don't see getting away from it as something for them. Its almost as if you think you are better than your family and friends if you actively want to do better and that is a difficult mindset to work around. Middle class children are exposed to lots of different experiences as they grow. They go to cafes, to restaurants, to nice social events. They learn how to behave without really thinking about it. They have experience of dressing smartly or casually as the event requires. They feel comfortable in their own skins.I had a TA at my last school who had never been to a 'proper' restaurant. She and her partner were too nervous about being asked about the wine they would like, which cutlery to use, that they just didn't go. Another TA had a son who was gifted in maths. The deputy head suggested he should try for a scholarship to a local private school. Her husband had a carpet cleaning business. She felt people would look down on her and that 'It's not for people like us'. Her son works for his dad now.

my parents were working class and not well off but they took us to restaurants and so on and gave us those experiences. It doesn't have to be an MC thing. My parents used to save hard to give us those experiences. Primarily they were for pleasure but we also did have to learn how to dress and behave. The rule when eating out was that we could choose ANYTHING on the menu but we had to eat all or at least most of it...that meant if we wanted a big main course, we were gently steered to a small starter and if we wanted to try someting new, it was suggested that we might like to try it on another less expensive occasion....we understood that these outings were special and expensive...or if it was like something we already knew we didn't like then this was pointed out to us. You don't have to be MC to feel comfortable in your own skin......and once again bloody crab bucket mentality. As a child I used to love a bloody steak, I still do. We were encouraged to do our own ordering at restaurants, coached by Dad to take it in turn, say please and so on. Aged about 7 the posh waiter at the restaurant asked me how I wanted my steak done and I said "rare please" Apparently his face was a picture.

Scratch that, I did a bit of Googling and found it! It was called Second Chance, it looks like he was kicked out for alcohol but I do definitely remember his family calling him a name like “coconut” or “Bounty”.

Thank you!!
I’ll definitely see if I can watch it.

@crochetmonkey74

I dont think its judgey at all. People like me who have done it need to tell kids exactly HOW to do it otherwise the 'follow your dream' 'anyone can be anything's nonsense takes over. I love this advice, once you have the scaffolding to follow it.

yes this! "If you trust in yourself. . .and believe in your dreams. . .and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy." Sir Terry Pratchett (and he should know!)

Hrft but it's education and expectation. By education I don't just mean qualifications I mean working with your children at home. Ask school how you can support your children at home, what sort of things can you as a parent do. Ask school if they can provide extra work. Also take your children out. Museums, galleries, walks, local interesting places, libraries. I didn't go to those places as a child and I learned so much when I took my own children. Talk about and discuss what they have learnt at school. Watch the news with them and discuss what's happening. Ask for their opinions. Talk about different professions and what is needed to do them. Make they know that you expect them to do well. Schools can only do so much. I'm from a poor background and whilst I haven't done what would be considered 'well' I parented my children in a very different way to the way I was brought up and I'm sure it made a difference.

Haven't RTFT but I'd say it's parental attitude, not poverty!
Many immigrant parents are dirt poor but value education, going to uni getting a good job etc, and the children suceed.
The parents may not 'know' what to do but they push kids to seek opportunity.

Other parents may have a laissez-faire attitude. DP family lives near a farming area, so not 'poor', but all the kids see is farming, they don't know other things exist. The thought doesn't even occur to them. A lot don't go to uni.
They don't do badly all things considered - they have family homes to live in ,and there's always work. You can earn a decent living. But it would be rare for any of those kids to be musicians, film directors, marine biologists...

If people from poor backgrounds continue to be poor, I'm about as certain as I could be that the reason for this is not that they don't aspire to be rich. But it does serve as a handy smokescreen for the social inequalities that are actually responsible.

@sanbeiji

Haven't RTFT but I'd say it's parental attitude, not poverty! Many immigrant parents are dirt poor but value education, going to uni getting a good job etc, and the children suceed. The parents may not 'know' what to do but they push kids to seek opportunity.

Other parents may have a laissez-faire attitude. DP family lives near a farming area, so not 'poor', but all the kids see is farming, they don't know other things exist. The thought doesn't even occur to them. A lot don't go to uni.
They don't do badly all things considered - they have family homes to live in ,and there's always work. You can earn a decent living. But it would be rare for any of those kids to be musicians, film directors, marine biologists...

Also parents don't take the toruble to 'expand' their kids worldview. They go to school, the local tractor pull, maybe a film once in a while that's it.

I think you have to be very careful how you push your children.

My DF couldn't go to University because his parents couldn't afford it (in the 50s). That was always the thing he went on about. He was clever and very sporty.

My DM missed out on grammar school because she broke her leg and missed the 11+

My brother and I were considered clever and expected to do well. We did extra curricula activities and were taken on educational trips, BUT I absorbed the message very young that anything I could do one of them could do better. That does nothing for your self esteem.

DM baked, did all the DIY and car maintenance, knitted, crocheted, iced cakes, was great with babies, painted and sketched, cooked, sewed all our clothes - anything practical she did it. DF was sporty, played cricket, football, table tennis, and was clever - huge general knowledge, always beat everyone at quizzes and board games. They both sang and danced.

If I was 2nd in class they wanted to know why I wasn't first. Why did I get B+ and not A. We spent a summer visiting castles and it was so boring.... constantly quizzed on who lived here, what battle was here, when was this built. DF went on and on about the war - who cared?

I passed the 11+ but grammars were made comprehensive while I was there and suddenly it was uncool to be clever. I was never popular but I kept my head down so I wasn't noticed by the rough kids. DF chose all my options. I wasn't allowed to take the subjects I wanted because they "wouldn't get me anywhere". I ended up dropping several subjects I really hated just before the exams, and failing the rest. At 11 I was predicted 10x O levels. At 16 I achieved 5, not including maths.

I was the last kid picked for any sport at school and faced the ritual humiliation of failing at every single PE lesson. I couldn't do any of it. Couldn't run, couldn't catch or hit a ball. Had weeks of semi-private tennis lessons and still couldn't do it.

I didn't know what to do after school so DF got me an application form for the civil service. Ended up in a job I absolutely hated and going nowhere. Got married young to the first boyfriend who didn't dump me, because all I wanted was to leave work and have a baby. Had several babies in quick succession and realised that I wasn't cut out to be a SAHM either, so have put more effort into work and finishing my education. Now I'm too old to get on and I see all these bright young things who can't even spell rising higher and higher in the organisation, and I just wonder what the point of it all was.

DB just took the easy road altogether, failed all his exams, dropped out of everything and ran away to live in a squat. Luckily for him he has natural talent where computers are concerned and was able to pick it all up in his 20s and still get on.

OP, I don't know what age you are, never mind your kids, but if you want to aim higher than wherever you are at the moment, career-wise, it is possible to do so. See all the threads on here from people trying to change career at 30/40/50.
Yes, funding any change (or getting a degree) can seem an insurmountable challenge, but there are often many ways of getting wherever you want. Self-belief can help you get better jobs - I've seen plenty people do that around me, they weren't any smarter than me, but they believed the next role was just a stepping stone to the top, whereas I suffered from 'impostor syndrome' in my current job, which held me back from even applying!
You can easily read up nowadays online to find out how people in a wide range of jobs got their role. What was their background? Did they study at university, college, or not at all? what was their previous job? Some jobs may appear to require a degree, but nowadays many roles allow entry by other means such as apprenticeships including ones which are equivalent to a degree (eg in engineering). In accountancy it's normal for people to acquire qualifications while working, so look at how to get a lower-level job to get started on a new career path. Companies can often help financially with study costs, or time off, or exam fees, if you are keen and show promise. they'll invest in you if they think you are worth it.
The above goes for both you and your children.
See also the recent thread on here about "weird" jobs. There are so many jobs that most of us never hear about, no matter how wide our social circle!

You need to nurture confidence to take a risk and discipline to keep going when stuff gets hard.

Connections and affording a good education helps
Also there are only so many well paid jobs
Apprenticeships stopped for years which didn't help as many a building firm owner prob did a trade and , trades can be good money too although not up there with drs etc
And also to many money isn't everything

I'm from a 'poor background' but don't have 'low aspirations'. Bit of a blanket statement here 🧐

My parents never pushed me academically, never really helped me with home work or pushed me to try new things, they didn’t really guide me at all but expected me to work from a early age. I got my first job when I was 14 which meant my school work suffered (I had no time for homework), by 15 I was working every evening after school/college and weekends and at 18 I moved out and was working 3 jobs at one point.

My dd will be the first in my family and ex dh’s family to go to uni, she’s one of the very few to even get A levels. My DM’s views are that dd should be working and not going to uni, apparently it’s a waste of time and money, she thinks dd is lazy because she doesn’t have a weekend/evening job and thinks it’s wrong that I support her so she can study.

I wish I had the support I give my dd when I was a teen, I wish my parents had pushed me a little or at least had more confidence in me. All kids should be encouraged to do their best but also to be happy.

@Ohwhere2021

Horrible judgey thread Grew up in a council estate now a surgeon.

It's not a judgy thread. It's a really important issue which needs discussing.

@FitAt50 that is pretty much crap
There are very few that think like that
Plus we all want our bins collected and someone to serve is in a shop, cook our food etc
Maybe if people didn't look down on others this would be a big step
A job is a job when all said an done ,society cannot function if we don't have many people doing many jobs
The high flying lawyer can't work if they have no childcare , no bus driver etc
We come from a council estate my son is off to uni but we have always maintained with our kids a work ethic and be happy , myself and dh have quite good jobs now as we have worked our way up
But we are still looked down on as we live in a council house , maybe it will help when society looses some of these attitdudes

@Lovemusic33

My parents never pushed me academically, never really helped me with home work or pushed me to try new things, they didn’t really guide me at all but expected me to work from a early age. I got my first job when I was 14 which meant my school work suffered (I had no time for homework), by 15 I was working every evening after school/college and weekends and at 18 I moved out and was working 3 jobs at one point.

My dd will be the first in my family and ex dh’s family to go to uni, she’s one of the very few to even get A levels. My DM’s views are that dd should be working and not going to uni, apparently it’s a waste of time and money, she thinks dd is lazy because she doesn’t have a weekend/evening job and thinks it’s wrong that I support her so she can study.

I wish I had the support I give my dd when I was a teen, I wish my parents had pushed me a little or at least had more confidence in me. All kids should be encouraged to do their best but also to be happy.

You sound like a brilliant mum. I hope she appreciates you.

@GirlOfTudor

I'm from a 'poor background' but don't have 'low aspirations'. Bit of a blanket statement here 🧐

You aren't representative of all people from disadvantaged backgrounds.

It was an eye-opener for me at DD's old primary school (we've relocated since). My parents were working class, but I went to grammar school and became first person in my family to go to university. There were some concerns about 'not getting above yourself' etc but we did stuff.

It became clear Reception/Y1 year that we were doing stuff like booking a kid workshop at an art gallery a 40 minute drive away and DD and I were doing that. That didn't seem to be on anyone else's radar, but trips to the local theme park were (ironically, at much higher cost!). You have to be aware of things like art galleries, museums, heritage stuff and know that it's OK to take kids to them. It's intimidating going in somewhere like that if you've never been to one.

Out of school activities like Rainbows, even at this early age, raises aspirations, gets kids thinking about the wider world, other people, gaining skills. Instead of sitting at home in front of a screen (which DD does too!). I just assumed everyone knew about it, until one of the other mums asked me what Rainbows is, as DD had been talking about it to her daughter. It's relatively cheap - about £25 for a term and help available if you can't afford that, but that relies on knowing about it and being prepared to ask for help if you can't afford it. And it's noticeable in the area we've moved to - we're by a poor area and there is no Rainbow unit within walking distance. They're all in more middle class neighbourhoods.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@FitAt50 that is pretty much crap
There are very few that think like that
Plus we all want our bins collected and someone to serve is in a shop, cook our food etc
Maybe if people didn't look down on others this would be a big step
A job is a job when all said an done ,society cannot function if we don't have many people doing many jobs
The high flying lawyer can't work if they have no childcare , no bus driver etc
We come from a council estate my son is off to uni but we have always maintained with our kids a work ethic and be happy , myself and dh have quite good jobs now as we have worked our way up
But we are still looked down on as we live in a council house , maybe it will help when society looses some of these attitdudes[/quote]
I'm speaking from experience as grew up in such a family and am the only one who has managed to buy my own home etc. What is your background?

@lifesabitchandthenyoudie i think thats the thing many if us in poorer backgrounds just tend to be happier with our lot and an achievement could be being the first in your family to buy a house , go to college , uni etc
We cannot all be rich

@CMeredithC

DD is extremely musical. Voice for her. We said we would fund the conservatoire/rada route but she had to do teaching or nursing so she could always earn a living.

Reading this makes me so sad.

I grew up very poor, music was the one thing I excelled at. Fortunately music lessons were free where I lived so I always had access to them regardless of my parents’ income.

I had SO many people tell me that I had to study another degree alongside music. Why? Why could you not earn a living working solely as a musician?

This goes for many other careers and degrees such as dance, fine arts, design, drama… and many humanities subjects. Why is it expected that you won’t be able to earn a living through these degrees?

I am so thankful that my parents were the only ones around me to never have this attitude. They couldn’t afford to give me any money for uni, but they encouraged me to do what I loved, so I worked my ass off and practised day and night to get a scholarship. I was the first person in my family to go to uni (second in the large extended family if you count a cousin). I got part time jobs whilst at conservatoire. I struggled massively for a few years until I landed a good orchestral job and I’ve been on an upwards trend ever since and now earning double what my nurses or teacher friends do. And I’m still on temporary contracts, once I get a permanent one I’ll be tripling the average salary and some.

I’m sure this PP’s DD is happy with what she does now, but it’s attitudes like this that prevents kids from even considering they could do something that they love. And that they could be successful at it and earn a living from it. Don’t tell your child they won’t be able to live off XYZ. Tell them if they work hard and become the best in that field, they’ll be just fine. Don’t put them down, encourage them to become he absolute best at what they do.

There was a big campaign in the acting world a few years ago, as aso many top actors were ex Etionians - the only ones who could afford to go down that financially unpredictable route: James Norton, Benedict Cumberbatch, Tom Hiddlestone, Damian Lewis, Dominic West, Hugh Laurie, Eddie Redmayne. Too many working class actors just didn;t have the family backing to keep them going during the leaner years so ended up in their 'fall-back' professions.

I second that it could be a really good idea to go for apprenticeships or train in a trade, as this really suits some people.

Nowadays that might not mean less pay by any means than say university lecturer. teacher. But it still would be good to aim high within those professions and get extra training in complementary aspects - conservation building, surveying, engineering for example. IT, coding, accounts

My DD has grown up in a deprived council estate her whole life, with me a single mum on benefits because of a disabled child.

She’s off to uni to study law in September - just received her unconditional offer.

I’m not sure what I did right but I tried to give her as much culture and experience as I possibly could, oddly enough she went to not such a good secondary school but because of that the kids had a lot of additional opportunities and it was on a day out to a law firm with school that enforced her want to go into law! I also always made clear all the nice things she wanted she could have if she worked hard so maybe the growing up “poor” made that even more desirable?

I intend to do the same with my 13 yr old DD who’s aspiration in life is to be a zoo keeper. I’ll encourage and give as much opportunity as I possibly can so she can succeed in this.