Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

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I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

@swirlsy

Education, education, education.

How accessible is this to everyone though?

I went to excellent state schools as a dc but proximity wasn't such an issue. My dc's school has a catchment of 250 meters & a house costs 1.2m.

Education also can happen outside of school. Most London museums are free, plenty of museums are cheap. Are libraries free for children where you live? There are also free internet resources and courses about a lot of things. It helps to learn stuff outside of school, although you should try to choose things that the kids are passionate about. They should want to learn more about their interests. That builds ambition.

Am I the only person who doesn't agree?

Poorer families, particularly the African and Asian communities, do have high ambitious for their children but this is very much due to financial means. I know of many families who have purposely placed their children into schools outside the borough as they want their children away from their immediate areas- particularly where crime is rife.

I think there is a sacrifice to be made if you are not in an inner city. A small group of us left our deprived town in the middle of nowhere to go to university and scraped by in the city until we got professional jobs and a foot on the property ladder. But now we have no family close by and those strong family links you get from being a few doors/streets away in a working class area can't be replaced.

The siblings, cousins and friends who remained have more financial hardship but they have a close knit bond. I find it sad knowing that any future kids I have will not have the same bond with their grandparents and cousins as I did growing up, but they will have greater opportunity. That is the choice I made for better or worse

Also, I hold the rather contentious view that if you really want you child/children to succeed professionally you must hothouse them from quite an early age. So this means assessing carefully where their natural aptitudes & enthusiasm lies (both have to be present for the process to be successful) & then taking control over the steering of those interests and aptitudes with extra tuition, guided experiences in the field & equally importantly, ensuring they mix with others who have the same level of interest & skill.

I fully intend to hothouse my children - it definitely works

@swirlsy

You are highly unlikely to get a job at a top law firm paying 1.5m a year if you grow up in a deprived area & went to a bad school.

If you keep thinking like that then they're doomed to low expectations. You know what, they don't need to be earning £1.5m in a top law firm. Earning £50k as a provincial solicitor is a perfectly respectable outcome they can aspire to, something still a tremendous improvement on being an unskilled labourer. The OP merely wants her children to improve their lot in any way possible, she's not demanding that they become the next Nick Freeman.

It's not something they are surrounded by. It's not the norm. School doesn't encourage it/have resources to educate and inspire to that level. Family doesn't support either because they don't see it as important or aren't able. Friends aren't interested, so there's no sense of competition or aspiration toward the same thing. Snobbishness from those from better backgrounds might also put them off or make them feel not good enough even if they are equally or more capable, so they just avoid the whole scene.

Kind of like...I don't know, I could have trained to become an Olympic athlete when I was younger. But I had no support to do that, no one I knew did it, and I didn't have access to a trainer. So not likely I would have done it.

@secular39

Am I the only person who doesn't agree?

Poorer families, particularly the African and Asian communities, do have high ambitious for their children but this is very much due to financial means. I know of many families who have purposely placed their children into schools outside the borough as they want their children away from their immediate areas- particularly where crime is rife.

Some poorer families absolutely do have lots of ambition for their children. There is still the issue of knowing how to attain that success though, what to study, etc.

@secular39. My granddad's family left Russia in 1917; my grandmother's Ireland in the 1860s; my father Germany in 1938 (he was Jewish); DH' great, great grandmother's were Hugenots settling in Spitalfields, who had to flee; his grandad left the mine and joined up circa 1926/7 - hugely brave step. All the above were successful and within a few generations family members were entering the orofessions.

Like them those from Asia, South and East, Africa, Croatia, etc, are the ones who had the grit to flee. It is hardly surprising that grit has been transferred to their children.

"I fully intend to hothouse my children - it definitely works"

Hopefully not at the cost of their mental health. Look up the pressures on youngsters in places like Korea.

For myself I have learning difficulties I did not go to a mainstream school. Most things academic go over my head . It just does not go in. If there are a mix of words and numbers its even worse. Reality is I'm only likely ever going to be in low paid jobs. Alot of people make assumptions that we all have the same education/opportunities. Or that we should have tried harder . But don't take into account people with Learning difficulties or simlar.

For 2 of my children 1 is simlar to me although a bit better than me academically but she does have mental health issues so that works probably impact on her work .

Ds has done better and done A levels. He did not want to go to university. But is joining the police so he has done really well.

There will always be people who are poorer back grounds. Its just how life is.

Funny but I was discussing this with DP this morning re a family member who has had every advantage educationally ( though family circumstances far from affluent) but who has chosen not to take advantage of her “good” fortune, has chosen to be a single mother and to live in areas of rural poverty. Her academically very bright children have very menial jobs ( one is an ag lab) living in a tied house and are have in their early 20s several children closely spaced. All the elements which predict another financially strapped generation unlikely to be able to take advantage of things like music lessons, cultural experiences etc.
In fact a mirror of my greatgrandparents’ family circumstances.
What I wish I’d had when I was growing up OP was the idea rat I could make plans for my future — that my destiny was in my own hands — I believe this is a class thing from discussions with friends.
Instead I was taught that education was important and I got several degrees and tertiary qualications without much of an idea about what came next. Now looking back I can see I wasted my talents and given planning and more self confidence I could have achieved so much more.
So OP
Planning and a sense of self worth/confidence — both fed to the wealthy with their silver spoons!

Used to do reading with kids at the local primary. Was sad to hear a real “not for the likes of us” attitude from some of the children. One girl in particular just as bright as my Dd but mum a waitress and she genuinely saw that type of work as her future.

Remember my dad (teacher) working very hard to persuade bright kids from certain backgrounds to do a levels. One was set on leaving at 16 to work in bank admin like her mum and sister. Thanks to him she did a levels got 2.1 at university and did work in the bank - via a graduate training scheme.

@HotSauceCommittee

Social mobility is at an all time low. Uni fees are too much for some MC families to afford, so higher education will seem like an impossibility for lots, especially if parents haven't considered it for their children.

But this is an example of how negativity can impact a kid's dreams.

You don't have to go to university. Lots of big name employers are recruiting school leavers now. And/or after A levels. There are options other than university....

My former employer (big name global company in financial services) takes work experience kids from the local inner-city comprehensive. These aren't MC kids, these are working class kids growing up in a rough area, some of whom get little/no encouragement from their family. But they get a chance. And if they show willing and some aptitude, they come back again. They can actually make a career out of this and sit alongside as equals with people who've done first degrees at Oxbridge, MBAs at top business schools etc.

"Earning £50k as a provincial solicitor is a perfectly respectable outcome they can aspire to, something still a tremendous improvement on being an unskilled labourer."

Sure, but most people can't be provincial solicitors either.

They don't but they often aren't aware of all the options or don't have the same opportunities. Mainly it's the lack of opportunity.
If you can't afford extracurricular activities for example then there's less opportunity.
I'm musical - perfect pitch - but we couldn't afford an instrument or lessons. So I sang in the school choir then nothing. My kids play instruments, have lessons, sing and have had ALL sorts of experiences and opps as a result.
They play sports in organised teams - again they have had all sorts of experiences of the back of that. But we can afford the kit, the clubs subs, the travel.My only sport as a kid was footie on the street or swimming, which was cheap.
Living in a 'nicer' area means a 'nicer' school usually with less disruptive behaviour from other pupils and a better chance to learn in school = better education outcomes = better opportunities in life.That all takes money.
Yes there are exceptions, I was an exception and went to Uni but it was a slog and I had a fulltime job while studying unlike most of my MC peers. I nearly dropped out because of lack of money. but the Uni stepped in to help me with a hardship fund.
My parents really cared about my education, and that was the difference.We couldn't afford books but mum took us to the library once a week every week to get books out. She helped with homework. Read with us/to us. Took us to anything free in the area like museums or exhibitions when she could.
It is harder for lower income people. We took our DD friend with us to some museums - her mum wouldn't have been able to afford the train fare and the snacks/lunch to go to the 'free' museums.

It’s resignation not low aspirations. Working class and poor do have high aspirations but going from childhood into adulthood, they gradually realise that equality of opportunity does not exist and their chances of success are tiny compared to the privileged and affluent. So they lose their aspirations in the gristmill of opportunities that one is supposed to have but don’t materialise, knocking them back and down.

"You don't have to go to university. Lots of big name employers are recruiting school leavers now. And/or after A levels. There are options other than university...."

They would be blocked if they tried going to another country though.

My situation is different because there was a multitude of reasons aside from being poor. Neglect, abuse etc

The reason for me was because all I ever wanted was to be happy, to not be abused, to be loved. Those were all seen as more important than any career or education to me. I suppose if my basic needs were being met then I could have focused on something else beyond that.

Take a look at Maslows hierarchy of needs, if you're not getting what you need at the bottom basic level of needs then you will struggle to ever reach the top.

For my aspirations, i always enjoy learning, school was a battleground of survival with the bullies, but when possible I studied the topics I was interested in, yes I did not do great with GCSEs, A-level, but thankfully through an access course, it enabled me to gain the qualifications to get to university, then I knew the importance of studying and getting hopefully good grades, and from the help and assistance of tutors that helped me in and outside of the lecture's, I came away with not to bad a grade, admitting I could of done a lot better, and applied myself more, but I have always had the drive to learn built into me.

When I was early teens, I used to read the Bible books, those with the plain red cover and aplain yellow cover, as they had various art works that I liked, then I started to understand words more, and from there I had the love of learning.

Am I the only person who doesn't agree?

There is a significant amount of research on this particular subject. It is an issue.

Culture can play a big part too. So coming from a culture where it's the norm for people from poor backgrounds to aspire to bigger things then with will be ingrained in you from birth. It will be cultural norm.

It's not the cultural norm for poor, white working class communities.

Maybe Mumsnet could create a 'Class' board. All this passive aggressive sniping about the great unwashed, they are so fat and lazy, have ugly things in their houses, vulgar Christmas decorations, eat horrible chocolate and can't organise childrens' parties without it descending into an episode of Shameless could be coralled there. It would be even busier than AIBU.

@lifesabitchandthenyoudie

BUT what is 'success'? I agree with many of the posts on here but surely we should be teaching (maybe alongside) how to be happy, kind, contented etc. A lot of what is wrong is caused by this 'dream' that everyone can rise to the top; that you can have whatever you want if you can just make enough money, etc.; that if you just 'aspire' and 'work hard' you will achieve nirvana... A few years ago I did a job performing surveys in people's homes. One of the surveys was very general. What became apparent to me was how many of the people with 'normal' 'dead-end' jobs were satisfied, had very low stress levels and lovely families. A lot had managed to buy their own small house but some rented. They didn't have anything fancy but enough to have what they needed. But their satisfaction levels were the highest... taught me a lot.

There has been quite a bit of research into different outcomes in terms of class, and one of the major findings was that working class families encourage their children to do what makes them happy, but upper middle class families tell their children to do what makes them a lot of money.

Both are aspirational, but to different goals. As we measure "success" in terms of material wealth, it appears as though the upper middle class have it sorted and the working class are "unaspirational", but if you measure on the happiness metric, the reverse would be true.

'"Earning £50k as a provincial solicitor is a perfectly respectable outcome they can aspire to, something still a tremendous improvement on being an unskilled labourer."

Sure, but most people can't be provincial solicitors either.'

In my family ( WC/blue collar) that would be shooting for the moon! You do have to go to university and do a law degree and postgrad to be a 'provincial solicitor' you know!
Try achieving that with little money at home, lack of access to good education, no money for uni fees not to mention living expenses for 6/7/ years while qualifying. "just' to be a provincial solicitor. And you have to get into the uni in the first place - which IS much harder for WC kids, who may make the grades but 'lack' the stuff that pads out their application likes DOE, hobbies, sports, music grades etc.
I remember the admissions officer at one uni being very unimpressed that other than being a great student and have great grades the 'only' other thing I'd done during my A Levels was be a young carer and work 20 hours a week in various part-time jobs trying to help my family make ends meet. No sports achievements, no music achievements, no volunteering in Africa, no charity work...
not very 'rounded' apparently... like a had time to be 'wellrounded' ! What I was was hard working and bloody resilent.

@chipsandpeas

they dont get encouragement probably from family

With all respect I do object to this attitude. We are both manual workers and on a relatively low income and do nothing but encourage our child in all aspects of life and future ambitions she may have. However, we have little connections in more so called ‘professional ‘ jobs and therefore have less chance to offer our daughter experience in those jobs. The expression you can’t be it if you don’t see it’ is relevant here. Please do not assume that the only reason children of parents on a low income do not do better at work is down to poor parenting. It is this attitude that enables things to stay the same