To feel depressed and angry about Bankers Bonuses

[SapatSea]

Most people in the country are facing a cost of living crisis. We have had austerity for over a decade due to bailing out the banks and the "we're all in it together" mantra (lies). Although our GDP doesn't look too bad as a bald figure the GDP per person is falling year on year and the multiples of difference in salary/wealth between those at the bottom and top is ever widening. We are becoming a more and more divided society in terms of the have's and have's not.Most people are deeply worried about fuel bills and the future and then we have this
www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
barely reported by the MSM. It's obscene.

(I do realise that just a few months after the crash and bail out that bankers got bonuses again but this just really hurt reading it this morning)

I think some people are hugely underestimating a) how much tax they pay already b) how stressful the job is.

I have a relative who works in finance - insane hours and responsible for sums of money most of us can’t comprehend. She makes good money but it’s a tough lifestyle and I know people who have inherited money with a much better quality of life.

Also don’t think there is anything wrong with hard work getting rewards ?!?

Yanbu op, the real hard workers deserve more and the amount bankers etc get is crazy. Not fair at all.

Also don’t think there is anything wrong with hard work getting rewards ?!?

Nothing wrong with it at all which is why it’s so scandalous that some of the hardest workers in our society are on minimum wage.

I worked at an investment bank at the start of my career. At the time I managed it fine, I was young and carefree, so the 12 hour days and, at times, ridiculous deadlines were ok. It was properly cut throat though, in my three years there, there were several rounds of redundancies and those who were cut were immediately escorted out the door. There was a real macho culture at the time (might be better now) and very few women. You could never really turn off and had to constantly check emails, and I had a constant feeling of unease that I would muck something up and be sacked on the spot. Luckily I never was but I saw it happen to colleagues.

Post-kids and I am now a civil servant. I earn about a quarter of what I used to (but still decent enough). The contrast between working hours and culture could not be more stark. The civil service is far from perfect, but wow, it’s like working in a rainbow and unicorn shop in comparison, everything is fluffy, relaxed and flexible.

I watched Industry, the BBC drama about Investment Banking, a couple of years ago. Obviously a dramatised edit but not that far from the truth of the brutality of those places.
The banking industry is certainly pretty messed up but those bankers are not necessarily having a great time of it, earning those ridiculous bonuses.

None of the above detracts form the fact that doctors, nurses and particularly carers are woefully underpaid. Not an easy fix though.

The world would be much better off if there were no bankers and no banks.

Post-kids and I am now a civil servant. I earn about a quarter of what I used to (but still decent enough). The contrast between working hours and culture could not be more stark. The civil service is far from perfect, but wow, it’s like working in a rainbow and unicorn shop in comparison, everything is fluffy, relaxed and flexible.

Interesting post but this stood out, I think people underestimate this factor. And if it is actually easy then apply and do it.

I made decisions based on stuff like this as I know what suits me and what wouldn’t

The world would be much better off if there were no bankers and no banks.

How would you get paid? Get a mortgage? Buy things?

I see the same old tired arguments being recycled justifying the massive ripping off of the top unlock and shareholders who are again the public, via pension funds (staffed by ex bankers via the revolving door).

If you are bringing in 7 figures for your bank, the main driver is ‘the seat’, not you. Anyone, with massive risk limits can generate a massive return (in a good year) and, in a bad year, get sacked and pop up at a similar institution within a short period.

There is no evidence that these extraordinary rewards are justified. They are a bubble, no different from tulip bulbs and NFTs.

Public and shareholders..

There is no evidence that these extraordinary rewards are justified.

I'm certainly not saying any of this is 'justified' on some moral or work ethic level. Simply that in a capitalistic society, you're going to get bigger salaries and bonuses in sectors where there's a lot of money sloshing around. And nowhere is more money replete than banking.

If you bring in 10 million that is you. Not everyone can do that, not by a long shot. It is, however, you in the context of a sector with lots of cash flying around. Which is of course a big reason why those people chose it.

These bonuses are taxed. The rate will be higher the corporation tax paid by the banks. So potentially more for uk coffers.

@Florenz

The world would be much better off if there were no bankers and no banks.

And we all bartered for everything, with pebbles and bags of wheat.

@TheKeatingFive,

A successful deal maker/allocation can make a good return on his risk allocation (it is called the sharpe ratio).

So, if you move from a small bank to a large one, with the same percentage payout, you will make 10x the bonus. No one would be making 7 figures without the bank behind them.

And, as for the tax argument, it depends whether you think that banks create wealth or ‘nick’ other peoples (GS was termed the ‘Giant Vampire Squid’ in one article).

Clearly we do need banks and they do create some wealth but they also effectively tax everyone’s pensions and this adds nothing net to the exchequer. The banking sector has multiplied by a factor of 10 since the Big Bang. It is debatable whether this has created any value.

High frequency trading is just front running, large scale mergers have been shown to be wealth destructive for shareholders and block trading is being investigated right now. And this is excluding the massive scandal of credit derivatives.

Florenz
The world would be much better off if there were no bankers and no banks.

Are you absolutely sure about that - have you researched ?

@FourBookPiles - I have some paperback books - would you like to get my downstairs loo painted in return ? Just a thought.

Oh I don't think anyone is saying that people work long and hard hours for less money - of course they do . But I think the headline millions in bonuses is a relatively few people. Of course others will get a very very nice sum in bonuses - but it is a business the UK is in. What else do we do ? knitted cushions ? - Don't get me started on Dyson who has taken all his manufacturing abroad. Well I suppose he can make them more cheaply and increase revenue - good for him but not so good for UK factories . Enough - I don't really know enough

Just have a government account where your money is held. No interest. They could also bring back the right to be paid wages in cash which Thatcher abolished.

@TizerorFizz

These bonuses are taxed. The rate will be higher the corporation tax paid by the banks. So potentially more for uk coffers.

Only until next year when the rate rises to 25%.

I watch all these “cut and thrust” programmes and roll my eyes. Some places maybe but not like where I worked.

@Florenz

Just have a government account where your money is held. No interest. They could also bring back the right to be paid wages in cash which Thatcher abolished.

In the world of digitalisation, this would be a huge step backwards.

As medical professionals are generally employed by the state , their pay will always be dictated by the constraints of the taxpayer.

Bankers are generally performance related in their remuneration, and so, the sky is the limit, in theory.

Remember though, that the vast majority of bank workers earn not too much. It's Investment Bankers , a whole different breed, who earn these stellar salaries and bonuses.

Their stresses aren't life and death, but they are under enormous pressure to 'perform' which often means, working 12-15 hour days, working through the night and knowing that they could be sacked, at the drop of a hat.

The pressure to 'earn ' eleventy million quid is absolutely enormous. Being able to , in almost a nanosecond, calculate a profit or loss , mentally doing fractions of percentages and converting to another currency and also knowing that you could not work the next day is quite stressful.

@Blossomtoes

Also don’t think there is anything wrong with hard work getting rewards ?!?

Nothing wrong with it at all which is why it’s so scandalous that some of the hardest workers in our society are on minimum wage.

Physical labour is not exactly the backbone of the economy. We are not an agrarian society. If you want the lifestyle of 21st century with all its comforts then you have to accept that the people who are generating these comforts are the ones in tech, engineering and finance. It’s all very virtuous, equating hard work and remuneration to physical labour, but it’s not how modern societies work. You are about 1000 years too late to run the economy in that way.

Thanks for the lecture @sst1234.

@Blossomtoes

Also don’t think there is anything wrong with hard work getting rewards ?!?

Nothing wrong with it at all which is why it’s so scandalous that some of the hardest workers in our society are on minimum wage.

Great post

lol at all the bankers and their wives coming on here and saying how many hours they work, as though that somehow justifies these obscene sums.

There's something so morally wrong with the system that people are getting this kind of money while millions of people can't afford to feed themselves in this country.

@TheKeatingFive

Instead of employing 10 workers on £150k and expecting them to work 18 hour days they could employ 15, either on a lower salary or by reducing their profits a smidge. They could adhere to the Working Time Directive. They could give their staff some job security. They could start family friendly policies.

I'm not sure this demonstrates any understanding of the business and how it works. Clients want the best people and the best people rise to the top via their skill and putting in those long hours.

It's just not the type of business where you can work eight hours and skip merrily home, to be truly on top of things you need to know what's going on across the globe and that changes hour by hour.

^Exactly. These people are so skill specific that companies are at bidding wars trying to get them hired. My dh works constantly, he is always watching the markets, up at the crack of dawn, 12-14 hour days, returned from/cancelled holidays earlier. I would definitely not consider this job a walk in the park.

@ButtockUp. That’s the issue, isn’t it, a medical professional in America, for example, CAN make a lot of money, because they’re not employed by the state, although they carry massive insurance as well. Public vs. private sector, two completely different ball games.