To feel depressed and angry about Bankers Bonuses

[SapatSea]

Most people in the country are facing a cost of living crisis. We have had austerity for over a decade due to bailing out the banks and the "we're all in it together" mantra (lies). Although our GDP doesn't look too bad as a bald figure the GDP per person is falling year on year and the multiples of difference in salary/wealth between those at the bottom and top is ever widening. We are becoming a more and more divided society in terms of the have's and have's not.Most people are deeply worried about fuel bills and the future and then we have this
www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
barely reported by the MSM. It's obscene.

(I do realise that just a few months after the crash and bail out that bankers got bonuses again but this just really hurt reading it this morning)

Apparently bonuses at just the Big 4 were 4 billion.

And how does that compare with the total amount of money raised by the sector for the exchequer in a year?

I don't actually know the answer to that, but I'm guessing its a drop in the ocean. And let's not forget, the NHS gets 20% of tax revenues as it is.

@Whiskeywithwater

As someone has said, if it’s so piss easy then feel free to go and get a job trading then. As a 30+ year veteran of investment banking, I can assure you it’s not that easy. And you are most definitely not rewarded for failure. What is sometimes not understood is that it wasn’t bankers being baled out in isolation - the collapse of the banking industry would have been catastrophic for the country and everyone in it! The banks were bailed out to protect the population and the country itself. Heads rolled .. they continue to roll. The conduct of everyone in the industry is under intense scrutiny always - the conduct risk awareness now far surpasses most other industries. Yes, some bankers get eye watering bonuses - but they generate eye watering profits. The financial services industry is a colossal contributor to the overall wealth of the nation. Banking profits lead to higher dividend payouts of course to shareholders. Which by the way - pension funds make up a hefty proportion.

Good post.

@irregularegular - I see your point but in ( probably hamfisted way ) - just to say you have to get money in to pay it out.

That is not to say NHS staff should not have more money - my DB and DSIL work for the NHS - but it is a balance isn't it and that is what much politics is about.

(I did recognise that your point was not a policy suggestion btw )

There are always going to be headlines about bankers bonuses. But for each one with a bonus I suspect more have lost their jobs.

I have no truck with Boris - but I thought the furlough scheme was OK actually - give people a way of keeping the ship afloat in these times. It will cost a fortune - not sure where it will come from but they did keep many families afloat. That money has to come from somewhere - whether taxes or whatever - but financial services are a driver for income into this country.

I have probably explained that very badly - but given we do not have £1m + bonuses coming into this house I can live with a few people getting them if they help the economy.

Exit one stout party .

@TheKeatingFive

Instead of employing 10 workers on £150k and expecting them to work 18 hour days they could employ 15, either on a lower salary or by reducing their profits a smidge. They could adhere to the Working Time Directive. They could give their staff some job security. They could start family friendly policies.

I'm not sure this demonstrates any understanding of the business and how it works. Clients want the best people and the best people rise to the top via their skill and putting in those long hours.

It's just not the type of business where you can work eight hours and skip merrily home, to be truly on top of things you need to know what's going on across the globe and that changes hour by hour.

Also people working on each deal are prized for their minute knowledge of said deal.. so many variables to consider. They can't just simply hand over and go home. It takes quick judgement and expertise.

The government raises £800 billion pa from taxes. Bonuses are linked to profits and the big 4 have done very well for a number of reasons. We need a buoyant banking sector. We need London to remain a centre of banking. We need the taxes the employees pay.

Nurses can choose an alternative career. There are grades of nurses and a hierarchy. When someone is 18, there are career options. They are not forced to work in the NHS.

I agree banks are robbing bastards. I am ow over my overdraft because they have charged me for using the overdraft I pay for, then ask me to pay in cleared funds by 3pm, if I had funds I wouldnt be using my overdraft in the first place. I now have no money at all until I get paid in March.

But there are no weekends, evenings off, long holidays and people clapping in appreciation on their doorsteps - and no nice coffee chats at break time

And no literally holding people’s lives in their hands either. And people say the royal family are parasites, they don’t hold a candle to these bloated plutocrats who were bailed out with our money when they fucked up.

[quote BasiliskStare]@irregularegular - I see your point but in ( probably hamfisted way ) - just to say you have to get money in to pay it out.

That is not to say NHS staff should not have more money - my DB and DSIL work for the NHS - but it is a balance isn't it and that is what much politics is about.

(I did recognise that your point was not a policy suggestion btw )

There are always going to be headlines about bankers bonuses. But for each one with a bonus I suspect more have lost their jobs.

I have no truck with Boris - but I thought the furlough scheme was OK actually - give people a way of keeping the ship afloat in these times. It will cost a fortune - not sure where it will come from but they did keep many families afloat. That money has to come from somewhere - whether taxes or whatever - but financial services are a driver for income into this country.

I have probably explained that very badly - but given we do not have £1m + bonuses coming into this house I can live with a few people getting them if they help the economy.

Exit one stout party .[/quote]
It's also not a case of banker's bonuses taking away from NHS staff, if anything it's quite the opposite.

The NHS isn't as efficient as it COULD be due to a lack of investment in technology, and centralised administration.
Even my piddly little developing country has no paper reports at major hospitals. I was surprised to see the sheer amount of paper here, with doctors, surgeons etc wasting time hunting things down. People ringing up for appointments instead of online booking.

But it takes ages to get any change through.. because it takes a while .. too short for election horizons.. also the upfront cost.

I feel that the nuances of living under capitalism aren't well understood. If you want to be paid the big bucks, the best thing to do is go where the money is. No better place than banking.

But by its very nature, it's not going to be the public sector. When you're being paid from taxpayer generated funds, there's always going to be a ceiling. There are other advantages though.

I think people could do with more educating before making their choices.

Also taxes rely more and more on smaller groups of people...
www.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/13/richest-britain-income-tax-revenues-institute-fiscal-studies

@TheKeatingFive

I feel that the nuances of living under capitalism aren't well understood. If you want to be paid the big bucks, the best thing to do is go where the money is. No better place than banking.

But by its very nature, it's not going to be the public sector. When you're being paid from taxpayer generated funds, there's always going to be a ceiling. There are other advantages though.

I think people could do with more educating before making their choices.

Besides that pay itself isn't really 'the issue'. It's the spiralling cost of rent (and now utilities). No amount of higher salary, or even saving can make up for the fact that rents and house prices keep climbing. It's a supply issue as much as asset inflation..

Sure

There needs to be a massive crackdown on the banking sector, they are mostly just crooks coining it in at the expense of everyone else. They don't actually produce anything, just move money around. Gordon Brown should never have bailed them out, he should have had them rounded up and jailed.

They don't actually produce anything, just move money around.

And that makes a lot of money.

What do you mean by 'produce something'? They produce profits. Again I think a capitalism 101 class is in order.

If Brown hadn’t bailed them out the entire country would have gone bust. But I do agree there should have been consequences apart from continuing to trouser obscene amount of money.

They don't actually produce anything, just move money around

www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-are-financial-markets-and-why-are-they-important

People hate to see others doing well! Why don’t you aspire for more rather than bashing those who have done well.

@sanbeiji - have I read that right ( the article you posted ) in that anything over £100k per year inc NI or over £150k per year puts you in the top 1% of contributing tax ( via income tax ) .

In which case I suspect many of these bonuses will attract a great deal of tax ( I am talking about income tax here )

I speak as one who is old enough to remember tax rates far higher than we have today.

Must remember to look down the back of the sofa and see if we have £150k going spare - quite happy to pay tax on it if so.

Meh. I can't get worked up about it. Capitalism is the least worst system that we have tried to manage large human societies.

My brother works in finance in the city. He is driven by the pursuit of money and the things that money buys. He makes other people a lot of money in the process. He probably works 90 hours a week. He started having heart palpitations at 38. He looks about 10 years older than he actually is.
I have no interest in any of this. I value my time, reading books and playing with my child. I wouldn't work 90 hours a week for any amount of money.
Financial rewards are higher for jobs that few people either can do or will do.
I have no intention of doing it,and neither do most other people.

I used to work in finance, bonus was often higher than DH’s pay. He’s more qualified and had a more stressful job than me. People I worked with were smart and nice enough but hardly a bunch of geniuses - they just had a decent awareness from the outset as to what the high paying sectors were and targeted those. Lots of the guys were married to teachers who worked in the private schools they sent their kids to.

And the office was usually deserted by 6pm

Whereas DH often works past midnight

It’s really easy to criticise ‘bankers’ as a whole, but the people getting these massive bonuses will not be the average bank call handler or cashier.
Its the people who are tasked with investing for massive pension funds, life insurance funds . They will have spent years appraising and researching information before huge decisions are made. It’s easy to criticise but if you want a decent pension to retire on you need the best people investing the whole fund for you. This is what these bonuses do, attract and remunerate.

I am not a Banker so no skin in this
However, I don’t have an issue with people getting a % of what they generate for their employer - this is how I am bonused
So if someone generates £10m for their employer then I think £100k plus is reasonable.

@MasterGland - so many best wishes to you and your DC and your book reading

It is of course true that money is only a problem if you don't have any - but if you have enough for what you want - then more isn't necessarily great if it takes away from your life.

My parents have enough for what they want. They do not want yachts or 3 cruises a year . But day to day - they can afford what they need or what they would like - a very fortunate position to be in. They do live in an inexpensive part of the country so I suppose that helps - but even so the Micawber principle I think holds true

& I do not mean to dismiss those who are struggling for money