To feel depressed and angry about Bankers Bonuses

[SapatSea]

Most people in the country are facing a cost of living crisis. We have had austerity for over a decade due to bailing out the banks and the "we're all in it together" mantra (lies). Although our GDP doesn't look too bad as a bald figure the GDP per person is falling year on year and the multiples of difference in salary/wealth between those at the bottom and top is ever widening. We are becoming a more and more divided society in terms of the have's and have's not.Most people are deeply worried about fuel bills and the future and then we have this
www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
barely reported by the MSM. It's obscene.

(I do realise that just a few months after the crash and bail out that bankers got bonuses again but this just really hurt reading it this morning)

Years of austerity following the last crash - have wages elsewhere gone back to even what they were then, allowing for inflation? I know my salary in education hasn't.
There's a reason someone in the article used the work "obscene" rather than just "large".

The question should be why are those like nurses etc paid so little .

Nurses are paid so little in the UK because the NHS is almost a monopoly employer. In New York, an RN can easily make $80k-$100k per year because wages are set by supply and demand.

@ohhooh. I agree that we’d have to pay ALOT of extra tax to give nurses and teachers bonuses and everyone would moan about it, even though it might be the morally right thing to do…can’t win really.😂

For those moaning about the demographic, the jobs are open to anyone with the right skill sets who applies. As things currently stand “diverse” applicants are preferred over white men. But most people would not dream of applying for the reasons given above.

I agree with this 100%. There were two women in 100 fee earners in my department, of which I was one. They were desperate to recruit more women but the type of work just didn't appeal to women as much as the men.

You were paid handsomely but they owned you. It was not a fluffy, happy environment, it was endless pressure, negative feedback and cancelling holidays with no notice. I saw many managing directors walking out in tears when the recessions hit and they wanted to halve director numbers. It's not for everyone.

@FourBookPiles

If you were making millions of pounds for your employer through your hard work and decision making, wouldn’t you want that to be acknowledged in your pay package?

It’s the same as footballers. If you’re signed by a club and the club makes multi-millions in additional shirt and ticket sales because people want to see you, why is it unreasonable to expect a cut of that?

I agree that some types of work are woefully underpaid for their contribution to society, caring roles particularly. It’s a joke they get paid so little. But it’s the system’s fault, not the individuals and it’s the role of the government to re-adjust things so there’s a fairer and more equitable distribution of wealth.

My dh is a banker, I would not and could not do that job because of the amount of pressure and stress that it comes with. If he's making great money for his employer then he should be compensated accordingly. Many other deserving professions are very underpaid though.

@Kilimanjaro97

Being a banker isn’t any harder (in fact, much easier) than being a doctor/nurse/carer/teacher etc

We have some of these careers in my family. The banker works far longer hours (18 hours a day 6 and a half days a week) than the doctor. The banker has no job security (instant redundancy is the norm), no automatic career progression and is the object of uninformed hate from many in society (cf this thread). Additionally they work in a pretty toxic environment and they either get measurable results or they are fired. If they succeed they are well rewarded. Most leave after a few years as the pressure is unsustainable.

For those moaning about the demographic, the jobs are open to anyone with the right skill sets who applies. As things currently stand “diverse” applicants are preferred over white men. But most people would not dream of applying for the reasons given above.

Medicine, nursing, caring, teaching etc are different jobs which require different skill sets and are rewarded differently. If people in those jobs want the rewards of banking then they should apply for banking jobs - and if they are successful, they can put in the hours, deliver the results, and reap the benefits. But there are no weekends, evenings off, long holidays and people clapping in appreciation on their doorsteps - and no nice coffee chats at break time.

This and also the tax paid here instead of elsewhere

Op I think it’s easy to feel as you do but would you want to work in finance?

I work in finance. Bonus is not as high as banking but is still decent. Half goes in tax, but still nice to have. I do not doubt that caring roles are valuable, but I have worked hard and this is the nature of the industry I am in. Open to anyone to join.

My dad was an investment banker, he worked long hours & very hard. He's also said most of his job was BS though

[quote Cameleongirl]@ohhooh. I agree that we’d have to pay ALOT of extra tax to give nurses and teachers bonuses and everyone would moan about it, even though it might be the morally right thing to do…can’t win really.😂[/quote]
Exactly then everyone would have to turn to banking careers to make enough money to pay their taxes for the NHS bonus scheme 😂

Also - morally how would the bonuses be decided? Doctor A saved 85% of his patients during surgery so gets a fat check, but Doctor B only saved 82% so doesn't? Nurse A accidentally gave too much morphine out twice so loses half her bonus, but Nurse B inserted 1,000 catheters in 6 months so gets a bonus? I'd love the see the compensation scheme 😂 😂

Again, it’s not the fault of the individuals. It’s down to what we value as a society. Making lots of money is valued more highly than saving lives or educating the young. That’s not a moral judgement on individual bankers.

The macho culture of investment banks is created solely by investment banks, though - that’s on them.

Maybe as a county we should be taxing company profits more. I often hear people arguing that increasing taxes will make the rich leave the country. For most people, that’s not remotely likely. They’ve got their whole lives here, kids in school, family, friends…they aren’t going to disappear to some low-tax haven just because tax bands change. I’m at the edge of the 40% tax band and I’m hardly going to up sticks and move country if the Scottish government moves the band a bit. Similar with companies - Amazon’s not going to pull out of the lucrative market that is the UK if the tax it has to pay here increases by a few percent.

It's not so much the individuals leaving as the risk of the financial institutions leaving if you make corporate tax uncompetitive. That doesn't benefit anyone, including revenue to fund the public sector.

There is the question about why the deals are so £££££ that the 0.5% fee for the banks advice runs into millions.

@Kilimanjaro97 agreed. I am married to/am/related to/best friends with people in all those professions.

The banker didn’t get any special handout or secret handshake to get into the job. They worked incredibly hard, went to Cambridge after coming from a working class northern background, and then has continued to work incredibly hard in an incredibly uncertain environment for the last 20 years - 10 or so different employers. They work much much harder than the dr/nurse and teacher. The person who has it easiest is the dr with the £1m+ pension pot who works 3 days a week -
and admits themselves they have it sweet!

They get bonuses for making money, through touch decisions and hard work. If they don't perform, they don't get the bonuses. Its the way bonuses work?

Erm, with the bailout due to bad performance, they are subsidised by the taxpayers to the tune of £500 Billion. (£500 Billion in 2008 monetary value.)

They don’t perform, they have a fail safe economy, socialism for them. Not so much for others.

The highest corporation tax in the world is paid in UAE. Europe has lower tax than anywhere else in the world. There’s room for some changes without scaring the horses.

Unless you are a shareholder, what business is it of yours (or the Guardian's come to that)? A company can pay what it likes if its shareholders don't object.

Agree with @Kilimanjaro97

The roles are there if you want to apply but say goodbye to your social life and job stability.

I absolutely agree that some professions are woefully underpaid but some areas including government roles have job security unlike any other no matter how you perform.

@JimmyDurham

Unless you are a shareholder, what business is it of yours (or the Guardian's come to that)? A company can pay what it likes if its shareholders don't object.

Because UK taxpayers subsidise the banking failures - we are paying for their failure. If you aren’t a shareholder but are a taxpayer then you very much are a stakeholder.

There’s room for some changes without scaring the horses.

agree

Also - morally how would the bonuses be decided? Doctor A saved 85% of his patients during surgery so gets a fat check, but Doctor B only saved 82% so doesn't? Nurse A accidentally gave too much morphine out twice so loses half her bonus, but Nurse B inserted 1,000 catheters in 6 months so gets a bonus? I'd love the see the compensation scheme

Incentive compensation for health care workers isn't really done routinely for front-line health care workers in the US, but salaries are generally quite high. And salaries are set comparatively. Hospitals recruit nurses from each other all of the time with higher wages, signing bonuses, better hours, etc. There's no need to come up with artificial bonus triggers.

Unless you are a shareholder, what business is it of yours (or the Guardian's come to that)? A company can pay what it likes if its shareholders don't object.

😆

@JimmyDurham,

Doesn’t quite work that way with banks since 2008!

Many middle income people paid extra tax to keep people on large 6 figure salaries employed.

And there is still an issue of capitalism for profits, socialised losses.

And that is leaving aside the issue of where these bonuses come from (clue: look at how your pension has performed long term).

As a consultant you can go into private practice too, at the same time as NHS, so there is scope to increase earning if you want. As there should be

Most people aren’t attracted to finance even despite the money as it is a hard slog and tough environment, plus other careers have social rewards, eg top surgeon is something people go for as it suits their mindset more

If it all still sounds attractive to work in finance sector then go for it

My DH is a retired banker, the tax he paid on his annual bonus went towards towards schooling, welfare, and the free 15 hours free childcare families receive.
If anyone else wants as much tax and contribute towards society in this way then please apply.

There's a culture of high pay in banking because money begets money begets money. If your job involves growing large pots of money into even larger ones them it's quite easy to make the argument that you should be generously reimbursed out of the proceeds.

That kind of thing would never translate into public sector jobs, because there are hundreds of thousands of teachers and nurses out there and a limited pot to pay them from.

It's got absolutely nothing to do with how challenging the job is and everything to do with the micro economics of it all.

In any corporate environment, those who bring the cash in (i.e. make the sales) have the most leverage with regards to pay. Bankers are just an exaggerated version of this, they bring in the money to the tune of billions.

The only way to tackle this would be a radical rehaul of taxation and even at that rich people tend to find ways round the rules.