Asking to be made redundant instead of going down the maternity discrimination route? Advice needed!

[Poppysmummy92]

Hello!

Some back story -

I joined my employer in December 2020. In January 2021 I told my manager I was 20 weeks pregnant and after that it went VERY downhill. My manager left unexpectedly and didn’t tell anyone, so for weeks I was trying to find out what I was meant to be doing and who I was reporting to as at the time it was a 100% WFH environment so I was completely on my own. I didn’t really get any contact from anyone until March 2021 when I finally was given a stand in manager who swiftly hired my maternity cover and I went on maternity leave in April 2021. In October 2021 I had an email saying they had appointed a new manager and he would be in touch but I didn’t hear anything. In November 2021 I emailed my contact and said could someone please contact me as I was due back in January 2022 and I had no idea who my manager was and what I was coming back too but nobody replied. In December 2021 I raised a formal complaint with HR as I genuinely believe as soon as I told my employer I was pregnant they wrote me off, and the communication since I’ve been off has been shocking.

So anyway, fast forward to today and the new manager has finally been in touch. He was prompted off the back of my grievance! He called and said he was sorry and he would look at options for my return and look into the grievance. I didn’t have any review meetings during my time at the company so I’ve never been given the opportunity to tell anyone that the job is not for me and it’s not something I want to return to and I told the new manager I wasn’t keen to return. Again, he has vanished and isn’t replying to my emails!

I get the feeling he is waiting for me to get fed up and resign. But I want some sort of compensation for the stress they put me under and their incredibly poor practice. I really want to ask them to make me redundant, but is that even possible?!

I’m just wondering if anyone had any advice on what I can do. The grievance route will be very very long winded, I work in employee relations I know the process to an extent. I just want to make it easier for everyone and leave, but not empty handed!

Any advice I’d be forever grateful this is causing me daily stress!!

@Blossomtoes

You'll get stick for daring to start a job pregnant and how it makes all women look bad, yadda yadda yadda... As if there's ever the perfect time.

No, not at all. She’s quite rightly getting stick for not being open, honest and transparent about her pregnancy during the recruitment process. That’s always going to piss an employer off and means they’ll never trust you.

I’ll bet your employer loves you @Cognoscenti. Talk about a piss take.

They knew I was pregnant at interview, they hired me above other candidates and said although it was my choice, they hoped I would return after mat leave... I'm returning to a pay rise as well. I do the job very well, and they've went over and above to make sure myself and other colleagues who are pregnant/parents can work as flexibly as needed. There's no actual need for pregnancy to be trested as a hindrance.

@Chestofdraws I meant more in general on MN, sorry. There has been comment on this thread too though, further up the page :

But yes you are a CF and it is people like you that make it just a little bit harder for every woman of child bearing age in the workplace.

@Cognoscenti

The difference is, you were open and honest, and didn't then request that they make your still-very-much-existing position (that you'd done for 5 weeks) redundant, since you couldn't be bothered going back.

[quote Yeahthat]@Cognoscenti

The difference is, you were open and honest, and didn't then request that they make your still-very-much-existing position (that you'd done for 5 weeks) redundant, since you couldn't be bothered going back.[/quote]
That's true, the redundancy request is too far.
I don't see an issue with not mentioning pregnancy when at an interview. I was much less further along than OP at interview, but I've always thought it should be on merit of who is best for the job, not discounting someone because they'll be on mat leave soon. I've often seen maternity covers transfer to an equivalent role and become valued colleagues too.
The OP's attitude hasn't been fantastic, but I hate seeing people treated worse by employers due to pregnancy. She's not had any contact to help her in her return to work and has had to keep contacting them to try to get some help, that part sounds stressful and unfair.

Congratulations on your baby.
TBH it is a clusterfuck. You won't get compensation anyway, will you, since you haven't been there 2 years? are you in a union? you should be, and they can advise.

@Skynorth

You are entitled to your maternity leave. Any actions taken by your employer which make you feel like resigning (and you wouldn’t therefore get maternity pay) can be classed as “constructive dismissal”. (I have a background in HR and I also have a law degree with additional qualifications in employment law) It’s up to your employer to acknowledge that you want to take maternity leave and it shouldn’t be down to you to chase them up about it. I advise you to get in touch with ACAS, outline your situation to them, and in the meantime make sure all communication with your employer is via email so you have proof of what’s going on. Good luck x

You can't bring a constructive dismissal claim with less than two years service. I'd ask for a refund on those qualifications.

Oh bless you. You don't get my anger but sympathy and mild annoyance. Your post is pretty offensive to the many women who have actually suffered maternity discrimimation.

yeah - touchy one. I was fired about 2 weeks after telling my company i was pregnant (not UK and hugely illegal) i then spent the entirety of my pregnancy fighting them in court. Over here it is hugely difficult to get a job if you tell anyone you're pregnant at any time before the contract being signed - and then you'll be let go anyway for some other reason. So better to be upfront, IMO, for yourself and for the rest of us.

Some questions, OP. I am assuming from your later comments that at the time of the message from the manager (idiotic of her but understandable) you complained at the time?
What did the company then do about it? did you follow up or just sit passively and wait?
It sounds to me as though they have a retention and organisational problem anyway.
Did you stay in touch during your maternity? it is totally your choice (as pp mentioned, you don't have to do KIT days) but in your shoes, with a) being new b) your ML being relatively short and c) the orgasational chaos - Your probably should have been more in touch, pushed at them a bit.

You started again in January? or you were supposed to and because nobody answered your... what? mails? letters? calls? WhatsApps? messages, you went in on 2nd Jan or you have waited for them to call you?

It's really not clear what you have done, tbh.
What i do think is that you went for a job while pregnant, as is your right, and told your company only after starting, as is your right. But you don't seem to understand why they weren't falling over themselves to retain you or keep in touch.

In your shoes? i would reiterate to your boss / team that you want to work, log in check mails and try to keep lines of communication open. Ask about the follow up to the grievance. And look for a new job because you don't like this one anyway, and you are giving them no real incentive to beg you to stay.

Chalk it up to experience and move on.

I haven’t waited until now to say something, my old manager left shortly after she sent that message so I was told I couldn’t really do much about it as that individual case was against her and she wasn’t in the company to defend herself.

OP, as someone used to dealing with grievances you must be aware that that isn't a valid response from the company. They are responsible for the actions of past and present employees and can't dismiss a grievance on the basis that the person responsible isn't there any more. Apart from anything else, keeping in touch with you shouldn't solely have been the previous manager's job, HR should have input on that.

@EmbarrassedAllOver

This happened to me almost identically.

My advice is fight it.

I took redundancy and regretted it deeply when I found it hard to get a similar paid job after. I'm now having to start again in a slightly different field.

Don't give up on your job, fight for it.

There's no redundancy to take

You are the reason it’s so difficult for other women of child bearing age and pregnant women in the workplace. You are totally a CF. You have pretty much no rights under two years. You’ve not been discriminated against - you have been on the receiving end of grossly disorganised employer. Original manager who made comment is now gone. I’d hate to have an employee like you. Why are you desperately looking for a way to get money out of a company you don’t even want to work for - you don’t want to go back to your original job but you don’t have any rights to a job change. So many women are forced out of their role into something else on returning after maternity - what exactly are you creating for? Why don’t you just put your energy into getting a different job instead of trying to prove a non point. People like you are not worth the effort. Always trying to find an angle. Don’t think the world of work is for you. Hope you don’t pass on your bad decision making and attitude to your baby.

Oh my.

@Perfect28

Oh bless you. You don't get my anger but sympathy and mild annoyance. Your post is pretty offensive to the many women who have actually suffered maternity discrimimation.

This.

Worked for a month, said pregnant and then WFH. Now wants a settlement/redundancy or anything she can grab. I feel sorry for companies faced with people like @Poppysmummy92

It doesn't help other's at all. It comes over as grabby. But there you go the @Poppysmummy92 will ignore all the answers she doesn't like anyway and go for any money she can get.

The thing that puzzles me about this whole thing is the ‘Asking to be made redundant’ angle. Anyone with HR qualifications, or even just work experience, must surely know that this isn’t a thing unless a company is restructuring. It’s a role that is labelled redundant, not an employee. Is there anything here that makes the OP think that the role is redundant maybe and hence it worth asking to be made redundant? You can’t just ask too be made redundant as an alternative to resigning to get some money out of it, unless your timing is great and they are planning not to recruit for that role anyway.

@Pennox

The thing that puzzles me about this whole thing is the ‘Asking to be made redundant’ angle. Anyone with HR qualifications, or even just work experience, must surely know that this isn’t a thing unless a company is restructuring. It’s a role that is labelled redundant, not an employee. Is there anything here that makes the OP think that the role is redundant maybe and hence it worth asking to be made redundant? You can’t just ask too be made redundant as an alternative to resigning to get some money out of it, unless your timing is great and they are planning not to recruit for that role anyway.

I don’t think OP is actually a qualified HR professional. Could be just admin staff in the dept.

‘Redundancy’ is the wrong word but what she wants is a big fat payoff.

I don’t deny that the company’s behaves badly, and I don’t think OP deserves the bashing she’s been getting. But she’s definitely lied about some things. Not great.

Well this is all a bit of a mess isn't it.

My understanding is you have worked 5months and been on full maternity leave. You have been employed by the company for less than 2 years.

A previous colleague who vanished overnight probably got dismissed or forced to resign immediately made a discriminatory comment, but nothing was raised at the time. You really should have pointed this out there and then. The fact you have waited months and the fact they are no longer employed means HR are very limited in what they can do to resolve the issue.

You can't ask for redundancy because your roll is not redundant, the employer will want to hire someone to replace you, if they were to make you redundant they would not be eligible to employ someone for the same role immediately.

Poor contact whilst on maternity leave whilst not great, they still did make contact with you, so they haven't discriminated here, there are no set rules on how little a employer should contact you, there are rules on how much if it borders harrasment, this is why most employers don't contact women on maternity leave unless approached by the woman or about 8 - 4 weeks before their return. The unwritten rule is, if nothings going to change on their return that impact their role greatly (staff changes do not count e.g new manager) don't contact them. Of you are returning to the same pay, same hours, same working conditions expect to hear nothing till about 2-1 month before you return, because there's nothing to say except "we are excited to have you back, hope all has been well, we would like you to report at 9am on Monday the whenever to the office (enter address). Any questions let us know" that's about it.

You aren't going to get a settlement or money from this. Just find a new job and move on honestly.

?

@Zolla

I got rid of someone like you from my team. She openly hated her job. Went down an enormous grievance route stating the company had discriminated against her mental health. She lost. Predominantly because I had written evidence of her stating how much she disliked her job. I had several Proseccos in celebration. My life is vastly improved without her in it.

You were due back in January - why the hell didn’t you log on & get bombarding your manager, saying hi to team mates on teams etc.And if all that failed, I’d not get off the phone to HR until my return to work was sorted for the following day. You are a grown up.

You are subject to a law that entitles you to minimal contact during maternity leave. I didn’t hear from my employer until a month before I was due back. I dropped my manager a WhatsApp to have a quick call to arrange dates & have a catch up on stuff I’d missed. I refused to do KIT days, I did catch up stuff when back as normal.

By all means do a grievance but I’d not hold my breath. A good lawyer would cost you. Just get a new job 🙄

Absolutely

@EmbarrassedAllOver

This happened to me almost identically.

My advice is fight it.

I took redundancy and regretted it deeply when I found it hard to get a similar paid job after. I'm now having to start again in a slightly different field.

Don't give up on your job, fight for it.

Fight what - OP was in the role for 5 months, has been away from there for MAT leave (not the problem) - works in HR, but doesnt know about KIT days, settlements or that she will not get redundancy for a role thats not redundant...

From the OP it sounds like she was kind of left to get on with it, which yes is horrible. She then drip fed about a comment a manager made which was probably added for froth - but as a drip feed that never works. Makes you look like a 'yeah but...'

Just thought I’d update all of you who were SO mean on this post saying I was all sorts of terrible things.

I went to an employer lawyer who looked at the case, agreed I have been discriminated and asked my employer for a settlement agreement which they agreed immediately and I’ve had many emails of apologies since for their conduct.

So boo to you all, I wasn’t being dramatic I was genuinely wronged!

Omg. Best update ever.

Still think you are a CF.
Maybe in your next job you can work for a while and see if you like it before you get pregnant again 😉

I really work in HR and can assure you that when the offer of a settlement came in your HR department will have sighed a sigh of relief that a pain in the arse employee didn't want to come back and the bit of cash to pay the CF off would be worth it

FWIW a settlement agreement mutually settles claims with no admission of liability so still not proven you were 'wronged'.

Meanwhile they’ll think twice about hiring women of child bearing age now, because you’re a CF. Brilliant!

Total CF.

Paid you off to get rid of you … I’m not surprised.

Good luck to your next employer