Asking to be made redundant instead of going down the maternity discrimination route? Advice needed!

[Poppysmummy92]

Hello!

Some back story -

I joined my employer in December 2020. In January 2021 I told my manager I was 20 weeks pregnant and after that it went VERY downhill. My manager left unexpectedly and didn’t tell anyone, so for weeks I was trying to find out what I was meant to be doing and who I was reporting to as at the time it was a 100% WFH environment so I was completely on my own. I didn’t really get any contact from anyone until March 2021 when I finally was given a stand in manager who swiftly hired my maternity cover and I went on maternity leave in April 2021. In October 2021 I had an email saying they had appointed a new manager and he would be in touch but I didn’t hear anything. In November 2021 I emailed my contact and said could someone please contact me as I was due back in January 2022 and I had no idea who my manager was and what I was coming back too but nobody replied. In December 2021 I raised a formal complaint with HR as I genuinely believe as soon as I told my employer I was pregnant they wrote me off, and the communication since I’ve been off has been shocking.

So anyway, fast forward to today and the new manager has finally been in touch. He was prompted off the back of my grievance! He called and said he was sorry and he would look at options for my return and look into the grievance. I didn’t have any review meetings during my time at the company so I’ve never been given the opportunity to tell anyone that the job is not for me and it’s not something I want to return to and I told the new manager I wasn’t keen to return. Again, he has vanished and isn’t replying to my emails!

I get the feeling he is waiting for me to get fed up and resign. But I want some sort of compensation for the stress they put me under and their incredibly poor practice. I really want to ask them to make me redundant, but is that even possible?!

I’m just wondering if anyone had any advice on what I can do. The grievance route will be very very long winded, I work in employee relations I know the process to an extent. I just want to make it easier for everyone and leave, but not empty handed!

Any advice I’d be forever grateful this is causing me daily stress!!

The text is irrelevant as it was from an old manager, they aren't employed by the company now, so it's nothing to do with them.

It's not irrelevant per se because it depends on how the company dealt with the complaint at the time regardless of whether that manager left. I had a similar thing at work where a manager said something awful to me, but they left like a week later. The judge still found my employer discriminated against me in that instance (and in many other instances).
However the part where it likely falls apart is that it happened a long time ago so likely too out of time to drag that up in a tribunal. The company is unlikely to settle without that bargaining chip, there doesn't seem to be much of one apart from recent events but it's very weak.

You work in HR FFS. I’d be firing you for incompetence based on some of these posts.

Did you actually do any work in the five months you were employed or just hang around waiting for direction ?

@edwinbear

www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights/redundancy-pay

Once you’ve been there 2 years, you’ll qualify for a weeks pay, per full year you’ve worked there (I’ve made an assumption about your age). So given you’ve not been there 2 years, you won’t qualify.

Not really that’s the legal minimum, many companies offer more than this!

Mine for instance, my colleagues were made redundant less than a year into a role and had 6 weeks pay. I also believe there was an additional £1k per child added on. They also had a 6 month notice period that required doing 0 work.

This is just a bit

I don't think it's discrimination at all! You literally started a new job, told them you were pregnant and old boss left all within a short space of time.
It just doesn't sound like there was a well organised handover from old boss to new boss. That's not discrimination though, just poor communication.

You went on maternity leave. Now it's time to return you have told them it's not something you want to return to and you're not keen to return. So, what is the boss supposed to do with that information!! Return or don't, but be clear with your communication. If you want to go back, set up the correct plan with your new boss. But you're starting off with a horrible attitude and to expect a payoff over this is CF in a nutshell!!

Perhaps your limited time would be best directed seeking professional legal advice not drip feeding in MN and when posters comment you get on your high horse

One thing quite a few posters can agree in YABU

@Poppysmummy92

Last comment!! I haven’t waited until now to say something, my old manager left shortly after she sent that message so I was told I couldn’t really do much about it as that individual case was against her and she wasn’t in the company to defend herself. I’m not asking for advice about maternity discrimination, I know I have a case, I have one open with the organisation. I’m asking quite simply if anyone knew of anything I could do that would mean we didn’t have to go down the lengthy grievance route. The settlement some have suggested sounds good so I think I’ll do some research and go with that as I agree redundancy isn’t the best route.

If you really do work in HR, please don't ever work in any of my teams.

You say you handle grievances but you allege you were told this crap and believed it?

Anyway, you'd be out of time for a tribunal on that now.

I won't comment on your ridiculous redundancy questions.

As you've got under two years service, appear to be out of time fir a discrimination claim and don't want the job anyway, it's probably best if you leave.

Not all employers do settlement agreements by the way, they are not compulsory. My current one doesn't. We just have a policy of not doing them.

If someone asked, we'd just say no, we don't do them. And we would investigate the problem and come to a conclusion.

You sound like a nightmare. An entitled and dishonest pain in the ass.

Quite surprised by these responses. I normally find that MN considers anything and everything to be maternity discrimination (anyone remember the MN outrage for the woman who lost her window space where she could gaze on the nursery all day long?) and any behaviour of pregnant women to be totally righteous.

Good luck with your claim, OP, do keep us posted.

I don't understand how you are trained in HR and work with grievances, bit didn't think that making someone on Mat leave, redundant when the role isn't redundant would ever be an option an employer would take.

How did you not know it was a pay off settlement that you wanted? Not sure you would know wether you do have a case or not, because you don't sound very clued up in your own job.

They may give you something, but I hope you don't work in an industry where everyone knows eachother, because you will find it difficult to get any other work. But also given that already role them the role wasn't for you, they may not.

The text the manager sent wasn't OK. Assuming you complained at the time, they should have dealt with that. If you have complained now, there isn't that much they can do given you have left.

Also, if I was a manager that had never dealt with you and yiu went down this route, I would pass you back to HR and/or the legal team. Everywhere I have worked HR and the legal team have taken over once its clear someone wants a pay off. That's possibly why the manager is no longer contacting you.

You are entitled to your maternity leave. Any actions taken by your employer which make you feel like resigning (and you wouldn’t therefore get maternity pay) can be classed as “constructive dismissal”. (I have a background in HR and I also have a law degree with additional qualifications in employment law)
It’s up to your employer to acknowledge that you want to take maternity leave and it shouldn’t be down to you to chase them up about it.
I advise you to get in touch with ACAS, outline your situation to them, and in the meantime make sure all communication with your employer is via email so you have proof of what’s going on.
Good luck x

Hi OP I think you might find that anyone who has gone down the discrimination route and settled successfully might be bound to a non disclosure. I speak from experience and wish I could help but unfortunately I cannot - good luck x

You are not entitled to redundancy. The only possible grievance you can have with the company is that they may have treated you differently because of your pregnancy. That will be hard to prove because of all the turmoil caused by the massive switch to WFH and the very short time you have actually worked for them. It's also quite common to have little contact from your employer during maternity leave as that can be interpreted as them harassing you. Best advice I can give is resign and move on

If the job still exists you cannot be made redundant

I'm shocked as an HR person that you are acting this way - compensation for what?

OP, whenever a thread comes up on Mumsnet about women who dare to apply for jobs pregnant there is an absolute onslaught of the type of comments you've had. You won't get good advice here, I don't know if you have a case but it sounds like you might. Call the Pregnant then Screwed helpline, they will give you the right help 0161 222 9879

You cannot possibly work in HR

A role is made redundant not the person, so they cannot make your role redundant when someone is currently working your role!!!

That’s basic HR understanding, please don’t make a fool out of yourself, it’s laughable really.

Even text message is paper thin, it’s one persons comment and they no longer work for the company.

I haven't read the whole thread but the key thing that jumped out at me from your OP was that you were due back in January and they have only contacted you yesterday about returning (despite you being in contact much earlier). I think that is valid cause for complaint, and potentially is discrimination as you have effectively not been able to return to work at the correct time (and start earning).

But I don't really understand how you can complain about him ignoring your follow up emails if they were only sent in the last day or so.

Is there a role on the company you would like to do? If so (and you don't want to just quit) I would ask your manager for a discussion - explain that you want to return to work asap. If they would like you to return to your previous role you're happy to do that but if there are other roles available you would be keen to explore this. Then discuss the type of role you might be interested in.

From what I can gather from the op, the manager has been in contact yesterday. Where op has said she doesn't want to come back. They have gone off and not been in touch for the rest of the day. Which seems entirely normal. They have gone off off to get advice which can take more than a few hours.

Op has an open grievance, (Which she only opened in December), says she doesn't want to come back, most people would get advice in the managers position. I can't understand how op assumes this manager is going to try and wait for her to resign, from this.

Not really sure how op expects them to do something about an ex employee saying something and she waited approx 8 months to raise a grievance.

Genuinely, struggling to believe op works in HR or directly involved with grievances.

@edwinbear

You worked there for 5 months and want compensation because they didn’t contact you enough when you were on maternity leave?

@Poppysmummy92 You sound like an employer’s nightmare . The job is “ Not for you”? And you want compensation? After 5 months’ work?

Unreal.

@Skynorth

You are entitled to your maternity leave. Any actions taken by your employer which make you feel like resigning (and you wouldn’t therefore get maternity pay) can be classed as “constructive dismissal”. (I have a background in HR and I also have a law degree with additional qualifications in employment law) It’s up to your employer to acknowledge that you want to take maternity leave and it shouldn’t be down to you to chase them up about it. I advise you to get in touch with ACAS, outline your situation to them, and in the meantime make sure all communication with your employer is via email so you have proof of what’s going on. Good luck x

The OP has taken her maternity leave. She should have been back over a month ago. She wants REDUNDANCY even though the job is there for her.

@Sciurus83

OP, whenever a thread comes up on Mumsnet about women who dare to apply for jobs pregnant there is an absolute onslaught of the type of comments you've had. You won't get good advice here, I don't know if you have a case but it sounds like you might. Call the Pregnant then Screwed helpline, they will give you the right help 0161 222 9879

This is nothing to do with applying for a job while pregnant. The majority of replies don't even mention that either. Get off your high horse!

YABVU

Your role isn’t redundant so they can’t make you redundancy.

You sound like a waste of time employee. You did five months of “work” then go on leave for a year and don’t want to return so file a grievance.

If you don’t want the job, quit. Doesn’t sound like you’ll be missed anyway.

@Corrag

You're "trained in HR" but it didn't cross your mind that a settlement would be a more appropriate solution than redundancy (when your role isn't redundant and you've worked there for less than 2 years). Come off it OP.

I agree with this. Not only does OP not know about the possibility of settlement, ( for what?), she seems to have not heard of KIT days.

@Poppysmummy92

I’m not asking for legal advice, I know the legal side I am trained in HR and work on grievances for a living! I’m just asking if anyone has ever suggested redundancy without redundancies happening in the business or if anyone has any advice on maternity discrimination as it’s not an area I’m that clued up with. All of my knowledge is on bullying type cases. I am not a money grabber I just know employee rights and from my experience in the company there has been multiple occasions where they’ve preached contact.

Please save your anger my post is not worth the energy!

If you work in this area then surely you know that it's not legal to make someone redundant if the job is still there