To be tearing my hair out at bedtime?!

[ParalysisByAnalysis]

Oh god help.

My 4.5 year old has become an absolute demon at bedtime over the last few weeks.

She’s in there right now. Screaming and tantrumming and it just goes on and on and on and it makes me want to walk out of here.

She’s so well behaved most of the time. It’s just bedtime. Apparently it’s just that she doesn’t want to go to bed. She wants to play. But it’s 8pm, she’s tired (nursery all day) and that’s late enough.

Eventually she will blow herself out and fall asleep but I hate that. I hate her falling asleep so upset. Husband just went in to offer her a story. But no. She wants to go downstairs to find her (imaginary) book (so that she can run away and avoid bed for longer) she won’t just lie and listen to a story.

She’s wonderful but the most stubborn child I’ve ever met. Entirely single minded and like a dog with a bone once she gets going. Which to an extent is a quality I hope she carries with her into adulthood because she’s no pushover but Jesus Christ it’s hard at bedtime.

She is screaming like we are torturing her. We’re going to end up with social services at the door at this rate I hate that every lovely day ends like this.

That sounds really hard. I would maybe try following a set routine every bedtime and decide in advance what you will do E.g supper, bath, teeth, 2 stories then lights out. One parent wait outside room and if she comes to door, silently put her back into bed. Keep doing till she eventually falls asleep. It will get easier. Hugs

She has a set bedtime routine. We do all this. As soon as we leave the room she goes nuclear. She shares a room with her older sister so it’s not like she’s lonely or anything.

We used to have to sit with her until she fell asleep. It took us ages to break that habit and I am absolutely loathed to start doing that again. If she knows we are outside the room it all just becomes a big game to her.

I’ve been in the shower the past 15 mins and shes still screaming for me.

Have you spoken to her during the day, when she’s calm, about why she dislikes bedtime? She sounds like she’s afraid of something.

What time does she go to bed? Could she be over tired?

She just says she wants to stay up because she’s not tired and wants to play in the playroom 🤷🏻‍♀️ She is tired though, I can tell.

She’s in full control of it, I don’t believe she’s frightened. She can behave when she wants to.

8pm at the latest. Earlier bedtimes have the same result.

Have you tried putting on a story cd or whatever? It does distract them as they can't hear house noises tv and that kind of thing?

Also does her older sister go to bed at that time too?
She could be rebelling against her staying up later?
I'd make my eldest very quiet at that time of day.. if you wind you sister up you'll be going to bed before her it's quiet time now, just let me get her to bed!

That's quite a late bedtime especially if she's at nursery etx

My 9yo goes to bed at 8.....

My two were horrible when overtired

They usually go to bed at the same time. There’s only 2 years between them. Eldest is an avid reader so she just reads till she falls asleep.

I hadn’t thought of an audiobook actually. I could try Harry Potter or something I wonder if that would work. They love that.

Is 8pm late? That seems to be roughly when her pals go to bed (I’ve asked around a little) but I did wonder about this.

What is the consequence for this? 4 and a half, so she’s not a baby. Or what happens if she has a great bedtime? Think of an easy to do reward and she gets it if she goes to bed without all of this. Talk to her in the day so she knows what to expect, if behaving like this the next day she gets less TV or similar.

Yes sue late for a 4 year old. Mine were in bed by 7 at that age.

She just says she wants to stay up because she’s not tired and wants to play in the playroom. But is she saying this at bedtime when she’s crying or have you spoken to her during the day when she’s calm?

Mine have an 8pm bedtime and they are 7 and 9 so it does seem a bit late for her age. Try 7pm? And I also came on to recommend an audiobook or CBeebies radio which worked for my bed refuser.

Ds1 is 6 next month and most nights one of us sits with him for the 10-15 mins it takes for him to fall asleep, more recently though - he got a kids Alexa for Xmas and he will listen to stories on that as long as we are upstairs and pop in to see him every few minutes, he’s asleep by 8 most nights too as otherwise far too tired, we have dinner at 6:30, bath at 7ish and into bed by half past - it’s a rush around and like madness but otherwise he’s an overtired crying mess!

Something needs to be conditional on good behaviour at bedtime, be it a reward or the lack of something. You need to stick to it 100% once you decide what it is.

May be painful for a while but worth it in the end.

I would tell her that that is bad behaviour. Then I would say that if she behaves badly at bedtime she will have to go to bed earlier the next night and follow through. It's worked with both my daughters (5 and 4). We allow them two books or two tv shows (hey dougee episodes do ten mins each) before bed if they behave badly we reduce it to one or none at all. This basically means up to 20 mins earlier for bed if they have behaved badly the night before. Works a treat once they have had the punishment a few times they know you mean it. We do 7-7:30 bedtimes so 8 does seem late to me also.

Yeah. I think I need to get a little tougher. They are generally well behaved girls who get on very well together and play fantastically etc and we are very lucky. But come bedtime it’s very hard to get them to engage in the bedtime routine, get into the shower/out of the shower/pyjamas on etc etc. it feels like 6.30 - 8 is a constant battle of nagging them to get them moving.

Their bedtime used to be half seven but thinking about it the reason it crept up was because it was just so damn hard.

But this is my fault. I need to be tougher on them about listening to me at bed time

Ah bedtimes- the Joy's!
So first I would start earlier. What us the routine?
Try lavender essential oils on bed, sleep spray by Holland and barrett is good too- especially when over tired.
Have you tried the no talking to her after settling into bed?
Does she have a night light?
Have you tried letting her read/draw in bed quietly?

I have no answers but you have my sympathies. My ds 5 is going through a phase of getting up and coming down upset- scary of dark/ shadows as it turns out. Sleep spray and loitering upstairs checking on him lots has worked in the end- I'm loathed to go back to staying with him until falling asleep. Hes always had sleep/ separation issues but its exhausting.

We did sticker reward charts too- that works for both of mine

My DD3 is usually asleep 6.30-7pm (7pm is a late night for her) and DD6 is 7-7.30pm. I feel this is late enough as they have such busy days. Sorry you are going through this OP, especially as you say you have lovely days and it's a shame bedtime goes to shit. It's not your fault just try bringing it all forwards a bit and stand firm like you say. Watch some old episodes of super nanny or three day nanny they have good tips on there. Good luck OP.

Is she down now?

No. She’s now talking quietly with her sister who I think is reading to her. I am sitting on my bed.

Agree don't blame yourself it's bloody hard work but being tough is your only option here in my opinion.