Why do you benefit bash?

[greyblanket76]

My family and I are working class and always have been. My friends are too and so are the people that I tend to socialise with/meet in everyday life. I've only been on MN since last year but have seen so many comments bashing people who are on/depend on benefits and I'd really like to know why?

Is this because some people on here think everyone that's on benefits is lazy and doesn't want to work therefore claim benefits? Or is it something else?

I'll talk about my situation and will keep it as brief as possible as I already know people will come in the comments to try and shame me. I'm early 20s and a single mum (didn't start out that way but your whole life can literally change overnight and that's what happened to me). I have one DC and I'm expecting another so I've been on maternity leave back to back as I'll have 2 under 2.

I've worked full time since I was 17 right up until I went on my first maternity leave. Due to the rate of SMP, I'm entitled to benefits as SMP doesn't even cover my rent which is £1200. I'm entitled to £1670 of UC which covers my rent and all my bills. During the first 9 months of my maternity leave I was receiving around £1507 UC (due to deductions) + £638 SMP = £2145 a month.
Once I give birth to my second DC, my UC entitlement should go from £1670 to £1907. This isn't 100% accurate but due to receiving SMP, let's say the deductions would be due £1700 UC + £638 SMP = £2388 a month. That would be excluding child benefit for both children btw.

When I was working full time, I was earning £1383 a month. I do plan to go back to work after my maternity leave ends as I genuinely love my work and have my whole career in front of me. However can people see the huge jump in difference between the two amounts? Nearly a grand in total! When returning back to work, I would be entitled to some benefits however because I'd be working full time, it wouldn't be a lot. That's why it's advised that you drop hours to work part time in order to get the most help available.

I've read my post back and hope it isn't too confusing but I just wanted some people who benefit bash to understand that sometimes life on benefits seems better especially as you have kids because you get so much more help. My mum keeps telling me to consider not working for a year or two just because I need to consider the quality of life my DC and I will have. I wouldn't be able to pay for rent AND childcare so what would I do? There's a lot that comes into play when deciding if you should go back to work or just be on benefits and I hope some people got that from this post. Seeing as this is an anonymous forum, if you judge/bash people on benefits, I'd really be interested to hear why. Posting in AIBU because I'm prepared to be flamed and have learnt not to take nasty comments to heart

@BobbinHood

Do you love how some morons just skim past the fact you have a job but you're on maternity leave?

Well tbh that’s one of the bits that irked me. On maternity leave I got less than £600 a month by the time tax was taken off. If I’d been getting £2388 I might have been able to actually take the full 9 months.

@BobbinHood as I've said, most of that is a rough calculation as I haven't calculated any deductions and I'm yet to receive an amount like that. 2300 - 1200 RENT = 1100. 600 of that is SMP, not UC. Remove that, you have 500. So I would really have 500 to pay all bills, food and look after myself and two kids. It isn't rosy at all and people are focusing too much on the numbers and not what the breakdown is

@BobbinHood

That's the systems fault, not OPs or Maureen's from No32.

That’s why I’m criticising the system that allows Maureen from No32 to take home 4 times what I did on maternity leave. Good to know I didn’t have to pay my mortgage while on maternity leave, should have tried that one on the bank.

So you're a mortgage payer.

Not a renter like OP.

The op who has stated multiple times her rent is 1200 a month.

So your situations is,
*Checks notes
Completely incomparable to OPs..

So instead of people hitting down at claimants who "get more than I got"
Punch up and demand people with mortgages get help too...

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

There have many times when I and another poster have dropped the percentage of taxpayers money that has actually been spent on welfare. The amount that went to unemployment was the lowest of the welfare spending. Yet you're here telling me 'well yes people who pay tax pay for your benefits.' Maybe do your research first then come and comment

The number the other poster and you have quite are misleading though.

Even if they are true, they don't take into account the fact that you don't pay NI, so automatically your costs for using public services are picked up by someone else.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon how is it misleading when I've literally got the figures from Gov.uk? The truth is in front of you but it seems as if you don't want to believe it just to fit your agenda

The reason why some people get annoyed with women like you is the common recurring theme 'it's mot my fault. Its not my fault if I got pregnant and decided to keep the baby. Its not my fault I got oregano yet again. Its mot my fault I want to live in zone 1 because I couldn't possibly look after 2 children without the help of my family. It's not my fault I get more
benefits than I'd get working FT. It not my fault I don't get a penny in maintenance.

Yet all those events could have been prevented by YOU. You are n the situation you are in because you chose not to prevent it. You are in control of your life, no-one else is.

The best thing you can do and the beat role model you can be for tour children is to start taking ownership of your life and the decisions you make.

There have many times when I and another poster have dropped the percentage of taxpayers money that has actually been spent on welfare. The amount that went to unemployment was the lowest of the welfare spending. Yet you're here telling me 'well yes people who pay tax pay for your benefits.' Maybe do your research first then come and comment

@greyblanket76

You're being completely disingenuous - unemployment benefit is the tiny amount that genuinely unemployed people get while looking for work - about £300 per month - not all the other money you're talking about. That's not unemployment benefit.

If you're going to tell others to "do your research first" (google I assume you mean ) then maybe look into what unemployment benefits are yourself.

What is misleading is that you don't pay NI, so your costs are picked up by people who pay it and that is not taken into account.

I've explained in a couple of times, I cannot put it any more simpler for you.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

What is misleading is that they don't take into account the lack of NI contributions.

Did you follow what I wrote? it was based on expenditure from the DWP. However that.money went into the coffers didn't alter the money they paid out.

Simple calculation divide money out by employed people.

Let's not forget that income tax isn't the only stream of tax. If anything the result I came up with is massively higher than the reality.

Now last I knew, and I'm not searching to confirm, but the tax pot of the UK is made up of:
Income tax - self explanatory.
Vat - which is paid on the vast majority of goods people buy.
NI - which is going up soon.
VED - which some call 'road tax'
Property taxes - buying and selling homes gets taxed.
Windfall taxes - things like inheritance etc.

Start breaking down the £4 that I came up with and eventually you'll see that Mr Dobbs the average Worker pays far less than the £4.

The truth is in front of you but it seems as if you don't want to believe it just to fit your agenda

Hah! So you just want me to pay up and shut up? What's your agenda?

I assume zone one needs hairdressers, care workers, nurses, bin men, street cleaners, nursery workers and childminders, shop workers, cafe workers?

People should be able to live in zone one without needing to earn quadruple the national average. If we stopped selling off houses in zone one to foriegn millionaires who use London as a car park for their money then the price of housing in zone one wouldn't be so high.

Ditto the btl ll. If their rents were capped they'd be forced to sell or charge a reasonable amount thus bringing the price of housing down.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

What is misleading is that you don't pay NI, so your costs are picked up by people who pay it and that is not taken into account.

I've explained in a couple of times, I cannot put it any more simpler for you.

Are you of the belief that NI is ring fenced.in any way shape or form?

I’m now a net contributor by some margin.

I used to be on tax credits.

I still get pip. I claim the pip as it’s a gateway benefit to access other help I DO need but the £94 every 4 weeks that I get is inconsequential to me now - so I donate it to charity. (A specific one that supports new mothers and maternal mental health fwiw).

But I don’t think benefits should be such that people are better off on benefits than working. And that should be tackled.

As I said when I first went to work after qualifying in a profession I lost money for quite a long time because I chose to go to work. Which is just weird.

When returning back to work, I would be entitled to some benefits however because I'd be working full time, it wouldn't be a lot. That's why it's advised that you drop hours to work part time in order to get the most help available
So you'll be advised to go back on the magic number of 16h and claim benefits to maximise your income vs hours needed to work.

It easy to say that it's hard to live on benefits as a single parent, but you sad you didn't include CB in your calculations and of course maintenance.

If the father(s) of your babies didn't work, then it was even more irresponsible not to prevent pregnancy and go ahead with it. If they work, then you have clearly left out how much maintenance you'll get that adds to the pot.

@vivainsomnia

When returning back to work, I would be entitled to some benefits however because I'd be working full time, it wouldn't be a lot. That's why it's advised that you drop hours to work part time in order to get the most help available So you'll be advised to go back on the magic number of 16h and claim benefits to maximise your income vs hours needed to work.

It easy to say that it's hard to live on benefits as a single parent, but you sad you didn't include CB in your calculations and of course maintenance.

If the father(s) of your babies didn't work, then it was even more irresponsible not to prevent pregnancy and go ahead with it. If they work, then you have clearly left out how much maintenance you'll get that adds to the pot.

Plenty of men work and still don't pay maintenance. It's very easy to avoid it.

Plenty of men work and still don't pay maintenance. It's very easy to avoid it
Its only possible if you're self employed which is the minority not the majority.

If you could read, you'd see most of those questions have already been answered. No one's on a wind up

you do realise, OP, that idiotic entitled-sounding comments are why you are being "bashed" here, right?

You used the word entitled after having worked 3 years or so. Of course you're getting "bashed".

As many people here have said, repeatedly, they don't have any issues with benefits, they don't worry about paying tax, and they don't judge (too much, judging others is natural). But your comments ALL smack of smug entitlement. So again: great wind up, you're keeping it up well.

It may well be easy for men to avoid. That is probably true. But that doesn’t mean the op shouldn’t claim it or try to.

CMS is disregarded for benefit calculations anyway but at least if the op was claiming and getting something it would be additional money for her.

I don't benefit bash people who need it. I do get pissed off with people like a close family friend, who has been "studying" on and off for 10 years, never worked neither has her last two partners. She lives in in a two bed house with her current partner (who doesn't work) and three kids (two teens and a toddler)the toddler entitled to free childcare but refuses to work and feels the council should give her a four bedroom house as they are overcrowded. Moans at me for "how lucky" i am having been able to buy my own house with my DH despite the fact we have both worked and saved like demons since we were both 16. So yeah that's the type of people I "bash".

*So you'll be advised to go back on the magic number of 16h and claim benefits to maximise your income vs hours needed to work"

There is no such magic number on UC
UC tapers with earnings, more hours you work, more you earn, the more it goes down.

You used the word entitled after having worked 3 years or so. Of course you're getting "bashed".

The word entitled is how the DWP word it in their literature and websites, of you dislike people using the words that have been chosen by the government, speak to the government.

Genuine question;

How do you get benefits for studying? I would love to leave work to go to Uni fulltime or even work p/t to do uni p/t but I can't afford to and I don't have time to do OU due to the hours I work.

I used to work in a Benefits setting.
I don’t blame individuals , but a system that can enable people not to work, and earn more than being in work is flawed.
I saw so many people who needed and deserved help, but I also saw people making a lifestyle choice to continue claiming benefits for years. What has stayed with me are the low earners, just above thresholds , struggling with no help.

OP the reason i asked about why the father(s) of your children aren't paying is because you have explained EVERYTHING else but that. And it is a perfectly legitimate question: if they have fathers, the fathers should be contributing.

There are many and varied reasons why they may not be, but it is still not too much to expect that parents support (in some small way at the very least) their own offspring. So that is why the question is posed. It is up to you if you don't want to say but you should also be able to recognise why this makes you seem a) entitled and b) on a massive wind up.

To your original question - which the title of the thread poses - there are many reasons why people judge benefit claimants. A lot of which has to do with how the media portray a lot of claimants as feckless parents of multiple children with multiple fathers. Etc etc. And tbh? I also judge a bit even while i understand that life happens and everyone has a different path.

It is human nature to make comparisons. Which is why there are two (at least) measures of poverty. Economics also understands that people compare themselves, to their peers most of all, which is why figures on relative poverty seem odd in a world where some have to get by on less than a dollar a day (which is why we also have figures on absolute poverty)

The Victorian ideas of the "deserving" and "undeserving" poor took root and sit very deep. So a superficial look at things "oh look, yet another single mother claiming housing benefit" will rankle more or less depending on several things including how much experience of the benefit system the viewer has.

Emotive words like "entitlement" add to the powder keg.

So again: i am a net contributor (where i live, but i was when i was in the UK too) and i come from a family of net contributors (parents). We are very lucky to be able to say that. But i also know more than i really want to about what drives people into poverty (so many different things) and I try not to judge. But there is, i think, a liminal point where people see benefit claimants and can work out the difference between their low-paid jobs and lifestyle, with the perceived lifestyle of benefit claimants and it is not unreasonable of them to be less than happy with the situation.

@AchillesPoirot

It may well be easy for men to avoid. That is probably true. But that doesn’t mean the op shouldn’t claim it or try to.

CMS is disregarded for benefit calculations anyway but at least if the op was claiming and getting something it would be additional money for her.

Of course she should try. But people always come on these threads and say "make the father pay" as if it's that simple. The father SHOULD pay but if no one is going to make him then what more can OP do?

@Frequency

Genuine question;

How do you get benefits for studying? I would love to leave work to go to Uni fulltime or even work p/t to do uni p/t but I can't afford to and I don't have time to do OU due to the hours I work.

It depends entirely on your living situation, whether you rent or own, if you're a single parent or have a partner, how much your partner earns if you have one, whether you've ever had a student loan before.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

What is misleading is that you don't pay NI, so your costs are picked up by people who pay it and that is not taken into account.

I've explained in a couple of times, I cannot put it any more simpler for you.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon did you miss the part where I work and have been working for years? The only time I haven't paid NI is whilst receiving SMP. Maybe get your facts right