To look forward to GP’s passing?

[blackdumpling]

Hoping to learn if my feelings are unreasonable & callous or OK

My GM looked after us growing up with lots of babysitting
She was always cooking us a big meal at special occasions
She is always delighted to have family around
She is very religious & highly family oriented
She is I suppose in many ways a stereotypical traditional ethnic grandparent

She has every time I have ever seen her lamented that I don’t speak her native language
I am almost 40 and without fail she mentions this every single time see her
This has caused me to grow up feeling like a disappointment to her
She has literally never once asked me a question about myself
She only talks about herself

She can be controlling & manipulative to other family members
She seems to have a negative & complaining mindset - glass half full type
She guilt trips & am told she can be quite nasty in how she speaks to/about certain family members in private
She is given a free pass by everyone as she is the matriarch of the family
Most of what she says I do miss as don’t speak her native language
She can often say things to my family members then later deny saying things
She can play mind games with other family members

Since my GF passed 5 years ago she has refused to sleep alone.
She has more than enough money to go to a 5 star nursing home
Or pay for in home nursing etc
But she insists that other family members leave their own families to sleep at her place
At this point I am quite certain she is milking it for attention.
She has constant visitors, she is never alone for even 1 day.

She has always spoken at length & regularly about all her health issues/ailments
I have for my whole life felt trapped when she talks at you about her health, which can go on for hours with no escape
To this day I feel panicked if am trapped in a conversation with someone
Every single time see her I leave feeling drained & exhausted
Hand on heart I would have visited her more over the years if she didn’t trap you for hours
Guilting me when I try to leave
To this day I can’t tolerate anybody discussing their health issues for more than a few minutes
I also avoid getting my health issues treated or talking about them to anyone
As would hate to make anybody else feel the way she made me feel

She has actually ironically for the most part been of good health (90+ now)
She contracted Covid recently & has recovered remarkably quickly
With no apparent symptoms at all

Am I evil for kind of wishing she had died of Covid?
Or not wishing, but assumed it would get her
It hasn’t and am a little disappointed
When they told me she had Covid I literally felt nothing
She refused to get vaccinated BTW & caused a big family drama with everyone worrying & fussing over her

I just feel like when she passes I will feel relief of the obligation of having to see her again
That she can never again get to tell me how disappointed she is in me

AIBU to harbour these secret feelings?
I have always played the dutiful role of GD and always make conversation with her
She would have no idea of the animosity I feel towards her

Is it OK to feel these things in private?
That I joked to myself “well if Covid can’t kill her nothing can!”
(Do use humour to help with painful situations in life)
I do feel bad for my parent & other family who will be devastated when they pass
But am I heartless?
All replies & advice appreciated

Thank you

She sounds toxic and no wonder you feel that way.

I spoke my grandmother's language because I loved spending time with her. My brothers didn't as much so they barely spoke it. But she was always lovely, and welcoming and loving and full of compliments.

Having known a narcissist, I completely understand how you feel. Everything is about attention..there is no love. Just FOG.

@ThreeRingCircus

Your thoughts and feelings will have no effect whatever on your GM's health or longevity - they are quite simply private thoughts, unbidden and troubling to you. Your behaviour towards your DGM is the only thing that matters, and that sounds absolutely fine.

I agree with this OP. I had similar dark thoughts about my MIL who was a manipulative alcoholic. I did try to distance myself from her as I recognised that having these sorts of thoughts whilst understandable in my situation are also unpleasant thoughts to have. After she died my DH told me privately how relieved he was that she was gone and then how horrible he felt for feeling that and to be honest I felt exaclty the same.

So I think it's quite natural to have these thoughts OP, it doesn't mean you have to act any differently towards her but do try to acknowledge that they're unpleasant thoughts for you to have and therefore let them go when they pop into your head.

I totally agree with these two perspectives - put my feelings better than I could. I have this with my Dad, I don’t want him to die but I have definitely thought - oh this would be so much easier if you were dead- which isn’t a nice thought at all. I don’t dwell on it but I also don’t deny myself that feeling when it comes up. It’s just a feeling.

@Gonnagetgoing your message has really helped cheers.
Can imagine it would grate because it’s something I could once do. So it’s in me.
I joke one day could have a knock on the head & wake up fluent again!
Just don’t think it is healthy to tell a child everytime you see them you are disappointed in them
I feel this has severed our close relationship
Growing up as a child internalised this shame
Only as a grown up realised it is not my shame to bear

That’s when I started to get angry in private
Am still learning how to deal with that anger I guess
I have over my life tried to bond by showing interest
By baking biscotti, asking her about recipes, admiring her amazing garden and the lovely things she has sewn
It’s so unfortunate that her disappointment in me and focus on her health have overridden all the good we have shared

I get it. My grandmother was, I believe, emotionally abusive. And like yours she did provide a lot of child care for her grandchildren, and was attention seeking from the adults. I often wished that she had died and my grandfather had lived, I'd have loved an extra 12 years with him around and for him to have seen his great grand children.

I will say though that it was difficult when she did die, and my feelings were very complicated, made worse by the glowing compliments from everyone who knew her about what a fantastic woman she had been, none of them knowing what she had said about them in private.

This bit stuck out to me
"She is not this way because she is “elderly”
She has always been this way
I understand and accept elderly people are preoccupied with their health
This isn’t to do with her being geriatric
She has been this way since she was in her 50s at least"

This is how my mother is, she's 81 now and pretty poorly. She's also very narcissistic and sometimes downright nasty. I stay in touch (constantly!) and help out because of my Dad.

So I do understand how you feel. I don't wish her dead by any stretch of the imagination, and I'm sure I'll be devastated when something does happen to her, but life will certainly be much easier and less dramatic.

So long as you don't do anything about your antipathy.

Tbh I don't think it's good to do anything but stifle thoughts like this.

All that hatred will only poison your own heart.

@Blossomtoes

Dear God. Of all the nasty posts I’ve ever seen on here that really takes the biscuit. Perhaps just don’t see her?

This, OP. I have family that aren't nice, and whom I don't particularly like. I don't see them. But I don't wish them dead. That's next level cold.

Relationships are complex you will probably be sad when she passes

I think you’re in a very dark place OP and you need to seek medical help. Not just for wishing someone dead, but because of the way you are writing your replies as well. You were rude to someone who assumed you had kids - well you are on a parenting site. The title says it all. I don’t have an issue with non parents reading or writing here, but I’d be 100% understanding to someone who assumed you were one.
You write this lengthy thread about how she’s making you feel and how needy she is and then it transpires you have distanced yourself from her. Good, carry on doing so. But I do think you need to seek medical attention. She deserves better than you forcing yourself and you deserve better than feeling like this.
That’s just my opinion, take it or leave it.

I think you need to be careful that these are feelings that you don't dwell on. Focusing on hatred will only harm you.
When it comes to it, it might well be that you don't feel relieved at all. You might feel all sorts of emotions and you need to be aware of that.

I'm sorry that your GM made you feel sad growing up. That must be really difficult. I think sometimes it's best to try and take whatever good you can from a scenario, accept the negative feelings, acknowledge them, and move on.

There's no doubt that all of us can feel relief when a difficult family member dies. Look after yourself, keep an emotional dustance as much as you can, don't admit in real life how you feel because some people are not very empathetic and will judge you harshly.

[quote blackdumpling]@Gonnagetgoing your message has really helped cheers.
Can imagine it would grate because it’s something I could once do. So it’s in me.
I joke one day could have a knock on the head & wake up fluent again!
Just don’t think it is healthy to tell a child everytime you see them you are disappointed in them
I feel this has severed our close relationship
Growing up as a child internalised this shame
Only as a grown up realised it is not my shame to bear

That’s when I started to get angry in private
Am still learning how to deal with that anger I guess
I have over my life tried to bond by showing interest
By baking biscotti, asking her about recipes, admiring her amazing garden and the lovely things she has sewn
It’s so unfortunate that her disappointment in me and focus on her health have overridden all the good we have shared[/quote]
Glad I could help a bit.

I know what you mean though - I used to be almost fluent in French in school but despite my DPs having a holiday home there I don't speak it as much as I should to be fluent again!

I know exactly what you mean re disappointment from her to you but I just think she's stuck in that way and maybe she feels you aren't trying?? When it's not as simple as that!

And I do understand how this has severed your close relationship because then you feel 'oh grandma why do you keep going on about this everytime?!'

You should not feel shame as a child or an adult and I agree with some others if you are angry in private then it's internalised so I can see how you feel how you feel but that is not good for you.

If I were you, carry on with the showing interest, baking biscotti, recipes etc and garden and sewing and just keep on with that. She knows you care and show an interest with the latter I'm sure of it.

Maybe make a little joke kind of re her health e.g. - 'yeah nonna, I know your health isn't good but at least you're better than e.g. Sophia down the road!' and with a little pat on the arm etc - does she have a friend nearby you could see her with who knows what she's like?

Maybe speak to her about her favourite singers, Italian TV shows, has she seen House of Gucci etc?

She probably feels bad now because she won't be able to go to her home country or even within UK on holiday or day trips so she might feel even more upset and disappointed knowing you can do these things.

Can I just say it’s not like Covid hit
And I thought gleefully “oh good I hope this nasty virus gets grandma!”
She only caught Covid very recently and it was a surprise to us all
As have said several times would never be mean to her
Or hurt her by cutting her off
I have too much respect for my family to do that

Also as someone said before about men vs women - yes she does seem to treat the females in family differently
The females seem get her mean side
The males are treated like Demi gods
Ultimately it is my father’s “fault” for losing the language
He was never engaged in our learning / education
If it was important to him he would have spoken to me in the language
He never bothered
But my father can do no wrong in her eyes
My father has no explanation for why he allowed that to happen
I guess it wasn’t important to him so ultimately it’s him who is responsible if blame can be placed somewhere

If you don't like the woman, don't see her.
Wishing her dead when she is otherwise healthy is throroughly unpleasant; maybe someone will do the same for you one day - you don't come across as particularly likeable.

OP has already stated she doesn't "wish" her dead, just that she will feel some sense of relief. There's also nothing to suggest she's "dwelling" on this, perhaps she's venting to MN specifically so she doesn't have to keep it all inside and dwell on it?

Anyway, I can relate to this. I don't have any type of relationship with my GM. She wasn't a good mum, and has never made any effort whatsoever as a grandmother, yet she resents the rest of us for not doting on her and considering her world's best grandma.

I don't wish her dead. I certainly won't feel happy when she dies. But I won't feel sad either. I'll just feel indifferent.

Societal expectations dictate we should feel devastated if any family member passes, so we feel guilty when we realize those aren't our feelings. We feel like a bad person for feeling indifferent. But sometimes that's the most natural response depending on the specific relationship.

You guys are all right
It’s important not to dwell on these feelings
Thoughts are given more weight when you voice them
Just embrace the good
I am very proud of my culture

Doubt she has seen house of Gucci but I would like to know her favourite Italian singer!
I wish she would get on a plane to go visit her siblings but she won’t without a chaperone
Covid has had no impact on her, travel wise

Am going to try to focus on all the things will lose if she passes

Thank you all

I was relieved when my saintly paternal grandmother died. She was controlling, manipulative and triangulated amongst her children and grandchildren causing all sorts of issues that still fester between siblings, uncles/aunts and nieces/nephews etc. She treated my mum like utter shit. She had a horrific start in life, treated appalling by her own mother, and it's not hard to understand why she was the way that she was but her legacy is still being felt today even amongst the great grandchildren now.

Would say only think of this very occasionally
It’s not something that I think about all the time
It’s something have only acknowledged & realised in adulthood
Was only about 5 years ago even realised I didn’t actually like her
And identified why I felt so numb about her
I just parroted that I loved her
As that’s what you do
As an adult you realise things which puts your past in perspective
As an adult now
Am angry someone would hassle a child over something like that constantly
I could never see myself telling my adorable nephews every time I see them
How they have disappointed me and never ask them a question ever
Then expect them to love me because duty

I don't think you want her dead. If you really did you might have acted upon it - even just in harsh words. But what you do want is a break.

I've seen a few of these complaints about "cultural" relatives on MN. For goodness sake if people are going to emigrate and then be surprised that their offspring assimilate to the adopted culture!

She chose to live in an English speaking country and it is not your fault that you are (a lot) better at English than her language. My children are bilingual but that's through bloody hard work keeping the minority language going, relevant and interesting. Bashing them over the head with guilt is the fastest way to make them lose interest.

Take a break from her, then when you phone or visit again, be prepared for the inevitable complaining and thank her for being so patient. It might throw her off the complaint if you turn it around a bit.

I do wonder the people who say I am nasty & evil -
If your kids were babysat by GM and you had lots of childcare support
And later in life your kids told you that GM made them feel really bad as a person.
Would you still think GM was a good childcare option?
Would you not think that a paid child carer might have been a better option?

OP I get it. I have an emotionally abusive mother who I have finally decided I will no longer have any contact with. She is also lovely to the men but absolutely nasty to the women in our family. We are all a disappointment to her and she uses every opportunity to monologue about it.

Despite having no contact, I know I will feel relief when she dies. I feel awful saying it - I'm not looking forward to her death, but I am looking forward to life after her death. She is a shit stirrer and trouble maker, and relationships within our family will be much easier once she's gone. We might as a family get to connect and heal. You have my sympathies.

And the disappointed in children and grandchildren thing - this is the second thread in as many days - is that an Asian thing? It seems really harsh. The best thing you can do, the really best thing, is promise yourself you will never behave that way with your children and grandchildren. DC and DGC are a blessing, whichever religion or none is adhered to! Well done you for recognising that her behaviour is wrong.

To be honest of she babysat you so much she had ample opportunity to teach you the language.

Is it that you wish she was dead or rather that you wish she didn't exist?

It's harsher to wish someone would die than it is to wish that you'd never been aware of their existence.

Both are valid at times though, I wish death on my brother most days. With other people it's more that I wish they were on the other side of the planet and I'd never had any kind of contact with them.

She sounds difficult your relationship sounds strained bit yeah wishing she was dead is pretty gross