Katherine Ryan reckons her eight month old is toilet trained

[WheelieBinPrincess]

Now, if I held my baby over the loo for a couple of hours for want of something better to do on a rainy Sunday, I reckon eventually he’d use it. I could then clap and proclaim I had started toilet training

AIBU to think she’s off her rocker? Apparently, putting your baby in a nappy means you are teaching them to always go in a nappy.

I know she has a nanny to deal with all this as well, who Im sure rolls her eyes at the proclamation that her baby is fully potty trained at 8mo.

Reminds me of a friend of mine who claimed her newborn learnt to use a hand signal for hunger from day 2 or 3 so she didn’t need to cry. She was apparently fluent in baby sign from two months old.

I have no idea how they could tell but it seemed to work!!

It's not from staring at the baby all day as some have dismissively suggested or having nothing better to do - considering that in many cultures the mothers concerned are spending their days working with the child on their back.

It's from holding knowledge we apparently dismiss as unimportant in our culture about how to recognise changes in physical state.

I suppose in fairness not wearing nappies and pre-emptying when they need the toilet is different in my mind to being potty trained in which the child knows they need to go, can either vocalise it themselves and/or make their way to the toilet or potty themselves and complete most of the actual doing without assistance. I can see how in some parts of the world and for some parents elsewhere it's preferred through necessity or preference, but I wouldn't call it potty trained as I'm sure most who have done it don't.

Doing EC is NOT more time consuming. Using one nappy a day and one set of baby clothes saves a lot of time!

It's also pretty sad if you think you can't communicate with a child unless and until they develop speech. Speech is only one of many, many ways humans communicate.

Just because you might be disconnected from that, it doesn't mean the rest of the human race is.

One of mine had awful constipation and pooed fortnightly. She’d grunt and groan before pooing so I had plenty of warning time to get her onto a potty before pooing. Hand on heart, she didn’t poo in a nappy after 8 months, and then was in knickers at 17 months and reliably dry by 18 months. My second is nearly 2 and not remotely interested in using the potty - gets quite angry when we suggest it!

@WheelieBinPrincess

This is nothing to do with what they do in other parts of the world, through necessity or differing cultural practices, totally different and not my point at all.

No I don’t believe she has potty trained her eight month old baby, at least not in the way she thinks.

But if you accept that it's possible to train a child in this way, why can't you believe that she has done it? I don't think you need to be born into a specific culture use common practices from other parts of the world to great effect, so why are you so adamant that she cannot have used this technique on her children (or that she is confused about what she did or how she did it)?

That’s not the same as your baby being trained to know when to go to the toilet or communicate it though, is it.

Why does it matter? I consider "potty trained" as when a child is out of nappies and not having accidents on the floor. Who cares if its based on the parent keeping an eye on the time and encouraging potty use. The point is that the child has the control to release the bladder at will/when told to/when at the potty, rather than weeing obliviously on the floor. That's what is "trained".

@HotChoc10

Is anyone going to explain what elimination communication is then?

I think you basically hold the baby over a potty or toilet periodically from a young age and say “Pssss psssss” to them and praise lavishly when they evacuate. They come to associate the sound with the act, Pavlov style. At least that’s my understanding.

I can see the appeal on being free of nappies sooner, but it seemed like hard work even for my crunchy, attachment parenting self. I think you’re far more likely to try it if you’ve seen it in practice, in the family, or similar.

I think we are quite lazy in this country DD was 2 for weesI think ?! She said one day no nappy and used the toilet with a little seat and stool. She didn't want to poo on the toilet she used to ask for a nappy to poo in and would hide until she was about 2 and half maybe a bit older.

A friend of mine did elimination communication and her 6 month old was doing wees and poos on the toilet by 6 months. He was a lockdown baby and she spent a lot more time at home with him than she normally would've. She said that she could tell the very subtle signals that he was about to wee and poo - and she could - I saw, many times. She was using terry nappies too and that may have been an incentive! He's 2 now and wees and poos in a disposable nappy - no nearer to being toilet trained than any other child.

I also did it with my 2 DC. Day-trained by 1yr but night-time is a different physiological mechanism which can't be influenced (other than checking if child needs to go right before bed & when waking in the night, & avoiding known diuretics late in the day). Poo-trained was earlier once settled onto solids when the poo was more solid & thus easier for baby control & both baby & carer to know the signs.

It's based on the idea that babies, like animals, have some innate subconscious desire not to soil their immediate surroundings as it's not a good idea to lie around in it. From birth they will tend to go if held away from the mother's body and/or genitals uncovered (exposed to the colder air). This can be seen in primates with their babies & with human newborns when people think it's funny that often the baby seems to go during a nappy change.

I was fairly casual about it, just held DC over the potty or sat them on it for a few moments at every nappy change, which was admittedly more frequent than most ie before any nap or sleep, upon waking and about every 1.5-2hrs when awake for longer periods. I also used non-disposable nappy pants so they didn't get used to feeling dry & comfy when a disposable absorbed everything. Only had nappy rash on one occasion with one DC. I did it for environmental & cost reasons & was not working so had time to do it & another parent was also into it. It needs the right circumstances to have more chance of success.

I think some people are talking sh*t (pun intended) Children don't have the cognitive ability until around 2 years old to make the connection between wanting to go to the toilet and actually going.
If some people have the time and energy to dangle a baby over a toilet all day and night well good luck to them

To be fair, DS loves to piss all over the shop as soon as he is exposed to the air during a nappy change, so maybe that’s part of the way there.

@veevee04

I think we are quite lazy in this country DD was 2 for weesI think ?! She said one day no nappy and used the toilet with a little seat and stool. She didn't want to poo on the toilet she used to ask for a nappy to poo in and would hide until she was about 2 and half maybe a bit older.

Lazy? Most parents of under twos are blurs of activity and sleep deprivation. Either penny pinching to stay home or rushing around balancing work and baby. This isn’t a family-friendly economy.

Tbf to her, I'd rather an 8 month old being trained via elimination communication than a 4yr old still shitting itself in a nappy.

@WheelieBinPrincess

To be fair, DS loves to piss all over the shop as soon as he is exposed to the air during a nappy change, so maybe that’s part of the way there.

You need to coin a term for “pisses all over the shop but not in the nappy”.

The trick was always to get the clean nappy out and ready before they weed on the changing mat.
Why a new dry nappy and not the wet one or a small terry cloth? Then the baby is soon in a cold squishy nappy again not a nice warm dry one.

It's a combination isn't it, of the parent knowing their baby really well, and the baby being trained to perform on demand. As time goes on the latter becomes more frequent than the former.

Thing is, start really early and you avoid some of the behavioural complications- the tot refusing to go where/when asked, preferring to carry on playing etc. It's habit before those personality traits come into play.

If you reliably catch the poos and wees, with an associated word/sound, that's what the baby expects and is ready to do. If you're good at it, the baby won't need nappies.

I don't think it works reliably for all children- mine had digestive issues that complicated things. I think it can work well for many, though,

The only thing I would question is “apparently putting your baby in a nappy means you are teaching them to always go in a nappy”. That’s really not how it works in general, kids will pee anywhere, nappy or not, with no training involved.

Other mammal babies don't soil themselves, its their instinct NOT to do that and its the same for babies if we let them use that instinct.

Other mammals tend to be able to stand up soon after birth, so getting themselves to somewhere they can go does not depend on anyone else. That and the fact they don’t wear clothes!

Children don't have the cognitive ability until around 2 years old to make the connection between wanting to go to the toilet and actually going.

I'm sorry but this is just not true.

My son was 18m when he would literally say "mama, poo!" And go to the potty, sit on it, and poo. Not all kids are like this but lots are perfectly aware and able to communicate that they are going by 18m.i remember being at a friends house and her daughter telling her in the same way.

I’ve heard of this and can see it can be done. I’ve always know when mine need to poo, and often (with young kids) when they need to wee.

My youngest is nearly four and often does the wee dance before they go (though now the less I mention it the better).

Agree at one they’re unlikely to take themselves there pull their own clothes down / up etc. But clearly using less nappies less leaks is a good thing and I can totally imagine that if they’re going on a potty at one the transition to going completely independently is easier / earlier.

I’ve often thought disposable nappies have delayed potty training as they don’t feel wet / uncomfortable.

Agree plenty on this thread are showing their own narrow mindedness, about other cultures and mothering / parenting practices.

I’d sat extended breast feeding is a similar thing. I breast fed all our kids u tol they wanted to stop, which they all did by three. They never had formula or cows milk. It was easy and great for us. But wow is it judged as something ‘weird’ bit it was the ONLY way until less than 100 years ago.

I bought a mattress from someone who did this with her kid, coslept. It was covered in pee stains. She was adamant that they did it too. I was pretty crunchy as they go but I could not get my head around EC. I do wonder whether some kids are more inclined to communicate their needs in that way. Mine was not bothered about potty training in the slightest, I think it would have been 4 years of stress in our case.

Human babies are vastly different to most mammal babies in one big way- it’s a long time before they are mobile enough to wee or poo anywhere other than where they are laying/sitting.

Adamant that they did it properly I mean, communicated the need and went on the loo. I didn't see the mattress til she dropped it off, other than a photo that defos didn't show the stains!