63 bus encouraging inapproperate touching?

[VelvetChairGirl]

I was going to post this in the feminism board but I decided to post it here instead, the new 63 bus has done away with polls in favour of handles on the side of seats and request stop buttons on the back of seats. does anyone else think this will encourage perverts to touch women and girls under the guise of just holding onto the handles or trying to reach the stop bus buttons?

www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/fleet-of-new-electric-buses-coming-to-route-63-51749/

All our local trains are like that - with handles in the seat sides

TBH if a perv wants touch up a woman, I don't think the existence of a handle or a pole will make any difference.

Pretty sure I've seen this on London buses many times.
I don't think bus designs are to blame for perves being perves, that is wholly the responsibility of the perves.

Ah yes perhaps it's trains I'm thinking of with these seat handles

I find it more creepy when someone deliberately puts their hand over your hand if your both holding onto a pole.

It looks like a lovely bus.

I can't see that the handles on the seat will make any difference to grope levels.

I think the bell on the back of each seat is probably better than a bell just in some places because then you don't need to reach across anyone to ring it, so if anything I'd say it's safer from a groping perspective.

Don't put your back out reaching like that will you?

@CurlsLDN

Pretty sure I've seen this on London buses many times. I don't think bus designs are to blame for perves being perves, that is wholly the responsibility of the perves.

I live in London never seen it on a bus

I think it looks great.

@mynameiscalypso

I find it more creepy when someone deliberately puts their hand over your hand if your both holding onto a pole.

I am thinking more if you are sitting and they are standing

Wow! This would never occur to me. Have you had a bad experience in the past? I'm wondering if you should seek counselling if a simple public transportation redesign leads you to start thinking about sexual assault?

I'm pretty certain lots of buses were like this when I was in secondary school (mid-late 2000's Yorkshire). Except the bell was on the handle not the seat head making it harder for the window seat passenger to reach however these are much closer.

There handles are also pretty prominent of the heat rest meaning some effort would be required to touch anyone else while using them. I've also definitely had my arse touched in a crowded bus when pressed near a long pole. I can't see how a change to seat side handles will make this worse in particular.

That is quite a reach op. Why did you even think of this.

This looks much better to me from a personal space point of view than people having to crowd around a pole, with people putting their hand over yours to get a grip, and shoving up against you so they can reach to hang on. Everyone can grab a handle close to them, one per standing passenger, rather than getting close to another person.

Not having to reach over someone else to get to the bell is a positive, too.

I can’t see how you think this isn’t better, OP?

@Anonymous48

Wow! This would never occur to me. Have you had a bad experience in the past? I'm wondering if you should seek counselling if a simple public transportation redesign leads you to start thinking about sexual assault?

I use buses all the time, I know what they are like.

The buttons are a little bit awkward if you aren't sat with one in front of you but I've not had any problems. I get the bus at night too.

Huh?

@MsAgnesDiPesto

This looks much better to me from a personal space point of view than people having to crowd around a pole, with people putting their hand over yours to get a grip, and shoving up against you so they can reach to hang on. Everyone can grab a handle close to them, one per standing passenger, rather than getting close to another person.

Not having to reach over someone else to get to the bell is a positive, too.

I can’t see how you think this isn’t better, OP?

it looks worse to me from the point of view of sitting in a seat, and people do not crowd round polls there are tonnes of them coming up from every seat plus the free standing one in the wheelchair area on your average bus, this encourages hands to be much closer to people on seats then the standard polls that normally are attached to the edge of the outer seat.

Think you’ve got ishoooos OP

• why don’t you complain to TfL if that makes you feel better

They’ve only removed the poles on the upper deck so there won’t be people standing will there?

If it was on the lower deck I’d see the point, but you’re not allowed to stand upstairs iirc

it looks worse to me from the point of view of sitting in a seat, and people do not crowd round polls there are tonnes of them coming up from every seat plus the free standing one in the wheelchair area on your average bus, this encourages hands to be much closer to people on seats then the standard polls that normally are attached to the edge of the outer seat.

I think we must use quite different routes. All my very central London ones are packed at rush hour and that’s where I get my experience from.

@JustLyra

They’ve only removed the poles on the upper deck so there won’t be people standing will there?

If it was on the lower deck I’d see the point, but you’re not allowed to stand upstairs iirc

no one takes any notice of that, go on a bus at 6.10am and they are standing upstairs and sitting on the stairs too.

I thought it was just the old routemasters that were no standing on the upperdeck I have not seen anyone told off for it since they and their conductors were gotten rid of.

When I was a little girl on the bus, this man stood next to my seat, rubbing his penis into my shoulder, I just froze with fear not understanding what was happening but I was sexually abused in foster care and this felt the same. It was broad daylight and when I finally got the nerve to stand up and get off the bus, he followed me and kept saying weird sexual things I only understood year later. I ran away from him to get away but it was very scary, I was 8.

I don’t know what the solution is but since becoming aware of academics working hard to destigmatise pedophilia (pedocriminals), nothing surprises me.

@VelvetChairGirl That may help discourage it - those handles will be harder to balance holding than the poles

Poles are a lot easier to use for balance than little handles. I know buses always say to wait for it to stop before you get up but in practice that would mean missing your stop every time here. I sort of swing from one to the next (disabled and crap balance).

Looks great although I had to Google what route 63 meant.

It was posted as if we all should know