No not understand how our NHS dentist can say our whole family of 5 are now not NHS and must pay private monthly fees to stay

[P3ff3r]

Said monthly plan doesn’t even cost of treatment.

We were NHS, how can we not now be and who can afford private x5 at the drop of a hat like that?

@Hankunamatata Denplan Care would work for you then, as all treatment cover with the exception of lab bills and cosmetic treatment such as whitening etc

This was on the news last week. Most NHS dentists are swopping over to private.
Im private i pay £14 a month i get a check up and clean and polish every 6 months, plus a discount off any other treatments i may need, a friend of mine paid more than i pay in a year for a check up and filling he needed NHS.

@Orchid876 my dgs dentist refused to allow him NHS treatment and were going to charge adult price for his checkup. I told my ds to query this based on the dentist being fully reimbursed for a dc and magically the price dropped.

@Hellosunshiner

Mollysocks "Exactly I looked after mine perfectly. I have a small mouth and my dentist when I was a child didn’t take enough of my teeth out to account for my wisdom teeth. So when they came through they impacted into my sinus cavity, became infected and I couldn’t chew for 2 months. Nothing to do with looking after teeth!"

Off topic slightly but I would be surprised if dentists take out teeth of a child to account for wisdom teeth that haven't yet erupted? That would be far too premature as some wisdom teeth don't ever come through and when they do it's normally the wisdom teeth that are removed, not molars.

I also have a small mouth etc and when my wisdom teeth started erupting (but were impacted due to limited space), the wisdom teeth were all removed under general anaesthetic before they could make a problem.

This was a 70s thing. I had several healthy teeth removed as a child to make space. Either thinking of the time or a procedure that dentists could get additional payments for.

Pharmacies, GP surgeries, opticians are all private businesses with NHS contracts. So the majority of primary care. It’s really as simple as if the government would like a service provided they need to pay for it. But they’ve slashed funding so a large amount of pharmacies closed, Dentists can no longer do NHS work, there aren’t enough GPs. Nobody is obliged to do any job and intelligent and well trained employees are in demand either for private work or in alternative careers. Making contracts unviable is a way of privatisation without the big announcement

This. I think it's partly about privatisation, but actually more about cost-saving by stealth. Richer people will pay to go privately, so it's "only" those on lower incomes who will suffer.

Threads like these show how effective the Government's tactics are. 90% of posters blame the dentists, not the Government. Same with GPs - it's our fault they're aren't enough of us, apparently, and we've all been sitting on our arses throughout Covid (even though the Dept of Health figures show our workload has gone up 27% in 2 years).

The public are so easily fooled. And by the time you all wake up, it will be too late. Actually, it's already too late.

I have no idea how dentists' contracts work but I know that they are very well paid. We have a few dentists in my family and I know a friend who is one too. All their children are in private school, holidays to far flung places and flashy cars. There is NOT one that doesn't fall into that category. Honestly when think my local dentist will not do many treatments on the NHS, I am saddened. I can't afford to have a £2k implant.
I think dental contract need to be reevaluated.

I have a small mouth and my dentist when I was a child didn’t take enough of my teeth out to account for my wisdom teeth. So when they came through they impacted into my sinus cavity, became infected and I couldn’t chew for 2 months

I'm a dentist. Wisdom teeth are only present in about 50% of the population. They don't erupt until on average about age 19. Unless you were to take a panoramic radiograph on a child routinely ( unusual) it's unlikely that the presence of future wisdom teeth could be spotted. Even then, they may not be visible on a child's radiograph as teeth haven't developed yet.

@Hellosunshiner

Mollysocks "Exactly I looked after mine perfectly. I have a small mouth and my dentist when I was a child didn’t take enough of my teeth out to account for my wisdom teeth. So when they came through they impacted into my sinus cavity, became infected and I couldn’t chew for 2 months. Nothing to do with looking after teeth!"

Off topic slightly but I would be surprised if dentists take out teeth of a child to account for wisdom teeth that haven't yet erupted? That would be far too premature as some wisdom teeth don't ever come through and when they do it's normally the wisdom teeth that are removed, not molars.

I also have a small mouth etc and when my wisdom teeth started erupting (but were impacted due to limited space), the wisdom teeth were all removed under general anaesthetic before they could make a problem.

That’s a good point, not all come through. I had 8 teeth taken out when I was 13? (2 each side up and bottom) and there was no room for any more to come through. There was probably less than a cm between my back molar and my jaw.

I also have a small mouth etc and when my wisdom teeth started erupting (but were impacted due to limited space), the wisdom teeth were all removed under general anaesthetic before they could make a problem.

I think there’s where it went wrong for me, mine weren’t. They were left to come out and then removed (after several weeks of antibiotics) by local anaesthetic.

But either way, just shows that having treatment doesn’t mean we didn’t look after our teeth (as a PP has suggested) it’s just luck (or not) a lot of the time. My brother never looked after his teeth snd has the whitest straightest teeth ever and no issues, then there’s me. It’s a running family joke!

MarineBlue33
They are paid accordingly they are medical professionals. My children are in private school and we have holidays every year etc etc but we still work hard for those things so please don’t imply that people who have that kind of lifestyle aren’t somehow entitled to ot

My child is technically entitled to free NHS care but I can’t find a dentist who will take him. His teeth are healthy so we’ve decided to pay for checkups (£30 twice a year) and will look for an NHS dentist only if he needs expensive treatment further down the road. It sucks but we have no choice.

I do worry about poor people who need a lot of treatment though - I know a lady in her 80s who recently had 21 teeth extracted and a set of dentures made. The bill to have that done privately would have been several thousand pounds, I don’t see how a pensioner is supposed to afford that when they’re surviving on a state pension.

@canary1

Laiste

I see your mother went private to see the same surgeon she would see under the NHS but sooner. If the NHS wanted to employ more of that surgeons time, or another surgeon in addition, then your mother would have no need to go private. The NHS is not staffed adequately - that is the fundamental problem. Obviously the NHS buys X number of the surgeons time. What he/ she does in their own time is up to them, so many do private work then.

I have a chronic pain related medical condition that has required repeated surgery. I see the same specialist both for appointments and the surgery.

He (to a majority of his patients) will see them on a private referral that is paid for and will then request the surgery as urgent as an NHS referral despite having to perform the surgery at a private facility.

It's a broken system and it usually comes to around £400 for the private appointments plus aftercare. However, I physically could not wait the SIX MONTH waiting list just to get a referral, not surgery referral. It condition impacts my ability to parent, go to work, to actually function. It's an impossible situation.

My DP has a mouth full of fillings because he had neglectful parents who never took him to the dentist. His first ever dentists visit was at 20 in a lot of pain. He also want made to brush his teeth as a child and only started to do so as a teenager.
Do you really think someone should automatically be condemned because their teeth are in a bad state?

@MarineBlue33

I have no idea how dentists' contracts work but I know that they are very well paid. We have a few dentists in my family and I know a friend who is one too. All their children are in private school, holidays to far flung places and flashy cars. There is NOT one that doesn't fall into that category. Honestly when think my local dentist will not do many treatments on the NHS, I am saddened. I can't afford to have a £2k implant. I think dental contract need to be reevaluated.

I think dental contract need to be reevaluated

Ah yes, making their NHS contract even crapper will definitely help encourage people into the profession

This is Tory gov policy. If you voted for a ToryMP and government this is what you voted for 🤷‍♀️

NHS dentists choose to contract out their services to the NHS. They can also choose not to do this and work privately if they wish.

I think dental contract need to be reevaluated

I think dental professionals need to have their worth evaluated. They are highly skilled professionals that have spent five years at university, and additionally several further years of post grad training just to get a list number. Never mind the extra training and time that it takes to become an implant specialist or an orthodontist.
So what if they are well paid. They've worked hard and deserve it.
Here in Scotland the current NHS fee for an extraction is £9.70, of which the average associate gets 45% of that amount. An extraction takes roughly 30 minutes.
Therefore the dentist receives £8.43 per hour. That's less than the minimum wage.

And out of that £8.43 the dentist needs to pay their indemnity, insurance, and registration fees and HMRC.

That's not valuing our profession. No wonder so many are walking away from the health service!

@Newgirls

This is Tory gov policy. If you voted for a ToryMP and government this is what you voted for 🤷‍♀️

I'm not so sure - last time dentists contracts were changed was 2006, so under labour. They've been looking at updating, but that got held up cos covid (was due 2021)

And ending contracts with individual dentists is done by the PCT locally, no central input

@MarineBlue33

I have no idea how dentists' contracts work but I know that they are very well paid. We have a few dentists in my family and I know a friend who is one too. All their children are in private school, holidays to far flung places and flashy cars. There is NOT one that doesn't fall into that category. Honestly when think my local dentist will not do many treatments on the NHS, I am saddened. I can't afford to have a £2k implant. I think dental contract need to be reevaluated.

But that’s the same with any specialist field. Doctors, Dentists, Vets or conversely architects and chartered surveyors.

They study for years at great expense. Their field is incredibly well paid because it’s such an important area. Why does the wealth of a dentist offend any more than a GP or Surgeon?

They’re well paid because it’s a difficult job. NHS don’t want to pay that money. If you want to make dentistry cheaper make the medical field more accessible for the every day student. Until then it becomes a more and more sought after trade.

It’s an extremely stressful highly skilled profession which is quite frankly unappreciated. Until it’s seen as import as medicine (which it is) nothing will change. The fact that the nhs offered much for free for many years has completely devalued the importance of health care generally. People just don’t appreciate any thing any more!

@Jjjaaakkk

It’s an extremely stressful highly skilled profession which is quite frankly unappreciated. Until it’s seen as import as medicine (which it is) nothing will change. The fact that the nhs offered much for free for many years has completely devalued the importance of health care generally. People just don’t appreciate any thing any more!

This in spades.

How is this legal?

How would it be illegal? Dentists can go private if they wish.

Off topic slightly but I would be surprised if dentists take out teeth of a child to account for wisdom teeth that haven't yet erupted?

Depends on the age of the child. My dentist took 4 teeth out when I was 13 because my wisdom teeth were sitting at right angles to the rest of my teeth. He decided taking the other teeth out now and letting the rest of them move and settle made more sense than having them out later. They took my wisdoms out at 17.

@Newnormal99

If you don't go you get booted off lists - I did and they told me all other nhs dentists were full and to stay with them I need to pay for a private appointment and if no issues I may get back on their list.

I rang another dentist and signed up with them again under NHS - luckily I did as needed an extraction and rather not pay for that privately!

That's all very well, but since the pandemic started my NHS dentist has consistently cancelled my appointments - I've managed ONE in the (almost) 2 years and that was when, after they cancelled last June, I rang an hour later to ask if I could have a private appointment and got one two days later.

With the same dentist. Presumably, had I not taken this appointment, he'd have been sitting around doing nothing...

It’s an extremely stressful highly skilled profession which is quite frankly unappreciated. Until it’s seen as import as medicine (which it is) nothing will change. The fact that the nhs offered much for free for many years has completely devalued the importance of health care generally. People just don’t appreciate any thing any more!

Yes I'd agree with this.

I moved from an NHS dentist - who did substandard work - to a private dentist by choice. The price isn’t much different, and I can actually get an appointment quickly at a time that suits me. My 6 monthly checkups are free (as everyone gets free checkups in Scotland) and I pay for any treatment if and when required.