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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

No not understand how our NHS dentist can say our whole family of 5 are now not NHS and must pay private monthly fees to stay

207 replies

P3ff3r · 10/02/2022 21:34

Said monthly plan doesn’t even cost of treatment.

We were NHS, how can we not now be and who can afford private x5 at the drop of a hat like that?

OP posts:
JuergenSchwarzwald · 11/02/2022 07:52

The whole industry is such a con. I mean needing regular check ups for teeth? We don’t do that regularly for any other part of the body

you do for eyes too but I guess there is more choice and if you need an NHS test you can have it done anywhere - it is structured differently. Maybe all dentists need to offer NHS services alongside private ones, like opticians do. It would be a massive upheaval to the industry though.

SartresSoul · 11/02/2022 07:53

This has happened a lot in a place near where I live, the local MP spoke about it at PMQs a couple of months ago. People were just being bumped off the list for no reason at all, some of them were in the middle of treatment plans and others had just been for a check up a week or two before. Shocking. It never should have been privatised, it isn’t as if dental care is optional.

Mollysocks · 11/02/2022 07:56

@JuergenSchwarzwald

The whole industry is such a con. I mean needing regular check ups for teeth? We don’t do that regularly for any other part of the body

you do for eyes too but I guess there is more choice and if you need an NHS test you can have it done anywhere - it is structured differently. Maybe all dentists need to offer NHS services alongside private ones, like opticians do. It would be a massive upheaval to the industry though.

Yes true hadn’t thought about eyes. But yes it’s different, some workplaces offer free eye tests too.
Mollysocks · 11/02/2022 07:57

People were just being bumped off the list for no reason at all, some of them were in the middle of treatment plans and others had just been for a check up a week or two before.

Sounds like what happened to me. Such a con.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 11/02/2022 08:00

@DoctorSnortles

It's awful. The cost of private dentistry is terrifying. I have to have root canal and a crown fitted, which will cost over £1000 with no guarantee that I won't lose the tooth anyway and then have to find the money to pay for an implant. I don't know about anyone else but I don't have that sort of money just lying about.
I've had several abscesses during COVID–19. I've had repeated root canals, implants, bridge etc. It's been north of £5K.

I can not afford for another thing to go wrong but I've a bad feeling that I'm starting a problem in a different part of my mouth.

RedToothBrush · 11/02/2022 08:01

I got dumoed off my local nhs dentist years ago. A friend tipped us off that a big surgery in Salford (near the city centre) was taking on nhs patients. They are more than 15 miles or 45 min drive from where we live. They were ok, good in terms of patient relations and reminders but I've got to be honest that the quality of what they were doing was substandard.

In the end, it was such a pain getting to appointments only to have to go to others because they'd screwed up what they had done, we decided to bite the bullet and go private.

Ironically its not costing significantly more than it was. And i think they are doing a better job which ultimately will maintain my teeth longer and cost me less.

I know other friends who also are registered considerable distance from where they live.

I do know of another dentist taking on NHS patients - again I'm unconvinced by the standard of care they give from what ive heard from people using it.

I think there is definitely a three tier level kf dentistry now in the uk. Those who can't get any, those who can get nhs and those who can afford proper dental care.

Its a very sad state of affairs but thats now the reality.

girafferafferaffe · 11/02/2022 08:04

We had the same with dd. I couldn't find anywhere nhs when I moved to our new county. Managed to get dd in. Then they booted everyone out to go private. Wanted £10 a month to keep her on. I had to sign up to denplan (which is also extortionate) for myself because otherwise I end up not going at all. It is awful I can't get any nhs dentist to have a look at my 4 year olds teeth. Surely children should be a priority? I don't understand.

canary1 · 11/02/2022 08:06

I think it’s terrible that dental treatment is not part of the NHS generally.
Of course there’s nothing illegal OP- just pointing out this as you say ‘how can this be legal?’

What’s awful is that the NHS must such a poor employer that few dentists want to do any NHS work I think

Laiste · 11/02/2022 08:07

@Mollysocks

Several years ago I needed a wisdom tooth out. I went to my usual nhs dentist where I’d had yearly check ups and was told, after the consultation that I needed to pay £50 and then if I wanted it out a further £80. Obviously I couldn’t not go through with it at that point. I was in pain.

I was so confused to why I was suddenly no longer nhs. The whole industry is such a con. I mean needing regular check ups for teeth? We don’t do that regularly for any other part of the body, we don’t all have our heart checked, or anything else that actually keeps us alive, every year ugh, I’m just ranting now.
It’s such a con to sell you needless treatments like polishing and waxing and other rubbish.

I agree, i don't understand why you'd get kicked off a health list because you never go? To ''make room'' for someone who does want to go? It doesn't make sense.

It's not as if they're routinely keeping a half hour slot for you just in case you turn up one day Confused If you're not going then you're not taking up ''room'' are you?!

If they're ''too busy'' to give the 'not goers' an appointment when they are suddenly in pain surely it's because they're keeping thousands of people turning up twice a year for check ups because they'll kick them off other wise!

bumblingbovine49 · 11/02/2022 08:08

@Lizzy1980

There were a few significant changes made within NHS Dentistry a few years ago which the NHS conveniently forgot to announce to the public. The main one being that no one is registered anywhere anymore. You can see whichever Dentist you choose to as long as they have an appointment available for you. You are not obliged to see the same one, you could see a different one for every visit should you wish. Obviously it makes sense to see the same one for continuity and each time you see a new Dentist for the first time they like to take a set of X-rays and start a fresh set of records for you. When patients were registered with one Dentist that Dentist had an obligation to see them within 24 hours if they were experiencing pain. Now, no regular Dentist means no obligation so if you’re in pain it’s a case of ringing around until you find someone that can see you.
This worked for me just before Christmas last year when I was in a lot of pain from a tooth. My NHS dentist could only for me in a month's time after Christmas. Since I didn't want to spend Christmas in agony, I rang around and found a private dentist who could see me the next day. They did all the root canal work before Christmas and it was fine with a temporary crown until I saw my NHS one a month later who fitted the crown in the NHS which at least saved me a couple of hundred pounds.

The whole thing is still cost a fortune . It would have cost me about £1,250 to have the whole thing done privately. As it was it cost £950 . I could have had an extraction more cheaply but I have already let my hair go grey, I don't feel ready to start losing my teeth yet.

The price really is enormous though . We are lucky that we could find this money especially before Christmas but so many couldn't . I'm not sure what we will do if this becomes a problem again though . We can't keep finding that sort of money

dentistattic · 11/02/2022 08:09

Dentist here, but Scotland based, snd very sad to read these comments.
I am full time, mixed NhS/Private. For context, I earned approx £50k six years ago. Since then, i bought a share in practice. My earnings technically doubled, but i now have a business loan almost twice what my mortgage is. So earning approx the same as before.
In real terms those earnings have reduced with time, due to increase in costs such as lab bills/dental materials, and minimal below inflation pay rises.

In March 2020 we went into lockdown. The practices across the country ground to a complete halt for four months only gradually opening up by end of July.

My business loan and mortgage had to be put on hold for six months as no income.
We opened With a lot of restrictions. We went from seeing 40 patients a day to see maybe 5 or 10, max couldn't actually use a drill at first, until public health found a solution.

The solution was expensive PPE ( that costs more than the remuneration for an nhs filling), a fallow time after procedure, which means you can't enter the room until the droplets settle. Initially this was for a full half hour, but now ranges in time between 10 to 30 minutes.

We couldn't take full advantage of furlough, and our replacement NHS emergency package was very poor, penalising staff that went on maternity leave amongst others.

We invested in red band handpieces and ventilation and slowly started getting back on our feet.

Everything takes twice as long and is twice as expensive. We literally stick our faces in people's unmasked open mouths. We expose ourselves to the virus every day. We are constantly off with Covid, or our nurses are, or we are isolating. We are stressed, broken and have had enough.

In Scotland there were no new graduates this past year resulting in a chronic recruitment crisis, as staff retire or leave the profession, and there are no replacements.

After being closed for so long, and still so restricted in what we can do, we are still fire fighting. We are still trying to get back on our feet. We are being threatened by the government that we need to increase our targets, which is unrealistic. We have backlogs of about 18 months. I have a waiting list of maybe 800 potential patients wanting to register as NHS.

My hygienist is terrified of Covid and doesn't want to work anymore.

We can only do so much

To the poster who said -

"Most dentists won’t get out of bed for less than £200k a year unfortunately these days.
This is where we’ve got to"

🖕this is absolute rubbish!!!! Maybe the occasional place that offer fancy services such as implants ( where dentists have trained for many further years at additional expense and are extreme specialist experts) this might occasionally be the case, but your average high street dentist has completely HAD ENOUGH.

Don't blame us. Contact your MPs. The system has been broken already for many years, and Covid has simply highlighted many of the issues that already have been simmering.

countrygirl99 · 11/02/2022 08:10

@olympicsrock

You’ve had free orthodontist treatment!!! That costs a bomb. This is why the nhs is broken. It can’t afford to do this for free….
My son needed orthodontics to prepare for surgery to correct a facial deformity. They are only cosmetic.
canary1 · 11/02/2022 08:10

Jurgenswartzland
How would you force dentists to offer NHS services? No one can be forced to have a certain employer, especially when they can work for themselves. What you are suggesting makes no sense - same as you can’t force all teachers in independent schools to teach some state school students too! What you suggest is nonsensical

gingerhills · 11/02/2022 08:11

@CluelessAt50

I see a dentist when I visit friends in Eastern Europe. The difference (what you get for your money, standard of equipment, appointment availability, standard of practice, patient comfort) is huge. You can have a city break & get your teeth done to a great standard for less than you pay for a mouth full of 'good enough' here. Vote with your feet.
It's crazy isn't it? But more people are doing this. Dental holidays Shock. Our country has been run into the ground bny greed.
SilverontheTree · 11/02/2022 08:12

No dentists are employed by the NHS. They are self employed contractors and can take an NHS contract if they wish to. They don’t have to. The contract isn’t well remunerated and so many prefer to set their own fees etc like any other self employed person.

RosesAndHellebores · 11/02/2022 08:13

We have been with our dentist for 20 years. He has always done NHS work but it's carried out by newly qualified dentists who are rarely with the practice for more than a year or two - always lovely but seem to need a lot of his supervision. We just slithered over to him privately by choice and the children.

He isn't a high tech all flying practice offering advanced orthodontics and implants. Just a family dentist who sees us twice a year and we see the hygienist first. He does fillings and gives advice, refers where necessary and is very kind. When I needed root canal we went to the specialist at his other practice.

We probably spend on average about £300 per head over a year, including hygienist appointments. For that we get good care, a wonderful bedside manner, 8.30am appointments, are always fitted in in an emergency, a nice, friendly practice.

Same standard of service from my optician. Spend about £700/800 every three years. (Complex prescription)

I just wish it were the same at my GP. In contrast I deal with rude staff, GPs who don't give a flying and extremely poor administration. That's repeated at hospitals.

I know which service I prefer.

GeneLovesJezebel · 11/02/2022 08:14

This happened to us years ago. We rang around and eventually found one to take us on.
It’s, unfortunately, not a new situation.

museumum · 11/02/2022 08:15

I’m with a private dentist pay-as-you-go as I have strong teeth and no treatment really. He used to treat the children on the nhs.

The nhs system for getting paid for the childrens work was so awful he now chooses to treat children of private patients for free!
That gives an idea how broken the system is.

Bluebottle11 · 11/02/2022 08:17

Regular check ups for adults are a con in my opinion, look after your teeth & you shouldn’t need to visit a dentist. I’ve never had a filling or any work on my teeth so I only go to dentist if there is a problem much like a GP.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 11/02/2022 08:21

Ask whether there is another dentist at the practice who is still NHS and, if so, whether you can be transferred to them.

A friend of mine received a message from her dentist saying the same thing you have been told (and implying there was no option but to go private) and when she rang to complain she learned she could move her family to another list within the practice and remain NHS.

Equimum · 11/02/2022 08:22

We had this happen to us. Our whole practice went private and we were just shoved to the private list. I had been seen the week before they made the move, and nothing was even said.
Sorry you find yourself in this position too OP.

itrytomakemyway · 11/02/2022 08:23

I have been on denplan for about 10 years. I had no choice as we have had no NHS dentists here for years.

I have good teeth. I have only had two fillings my whole life - but I'm getting older and I know that my luck may not last. From denplan I got two check ups and two scale and polish a year. I have had a letter telling me that due to covid costs this will be cut to one a year.

I am angry. For 16 months during covid my dentist was only doing emergency work - no check ups. My denplan was still being paid every month though. I managed to beg for a check up after this time. Two check ups missed, but paid for.

My dentist must have had a good regular income from denplan during the covid months. I paid for a service I could not access. I now have to pay the same for half of a service.

Hathertonhariden · 11/02/2022 08:23

What do the dentists on here think will happen to the nation's dental health over the next few years? Private dental care is unaffordable for many and not everyone is in a position to go abroad for dental treatment. Are govt/dental profession just going to shrug their shoulders and focus on those who can pay?

Mollysocks · 11/02/2022 08:23

@Bluebottle11

Regular check ups for adults are a con in my opinion, look after your teeth & you shouldn’t need to visit a dentist. I’ve never had a filling or any work on my teeth so I only go to dentist if there is a problem much like a GP.
Totally with you there @Bluebottle11 it’s a massive business.
Mollysocks · 11/02/2022 08:25

@Hathertonhariden

What do the dentists on here think will happen to the nation's dental health over the next few years? Private dental care is unaffordable for many and not everyone is in a position to go abroad for dental treatment. Are govt/dental profession just going to shrug their shoulders and focus on those who can pay?
Agree. We berate other countries (like the U.S) for their healthcare system but look at ours, it’s not perfect. Far from it actually.
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