No not understand how our NHS dentist can say our whole family of 5 are now not NHS and must pay private monthly fees to stay

[P3ff3r]

Said monthly plan doesn’t even cost of treatment.

We were NHS, how can we not now be and who can afford private x5 at the drop of a hat like that?

@olympicsrock

You’ve had free orthodontist treatment!!! That costs a bomb. This is why the nhs is broken. It can’t afford to do this for free….

Don't be ridiculous, orthodontic treatment on the NHS was generally performed to prevent significant future damage (and cost).

Whenever I go abroad on holiday I get my teeth checked and get them cleaned with the hygienist it’s normally around 70 euros
Most of the time I can get an appointment next day

It’s much harder and more expensive to treat a problem! It’s cheaper and better for your overall health to spot things early. Don’t Walt until you have problems!

So - pp said all dentists are self employed and none have to do NHS work.

Now - genuine question - what other health profession is like this? Are ALL surgeons, for example, also self employed?

(When my mother went private for a knee op a few years ago she saw the same surgeon she would have seen if she'd sat on the NHS waiting list. Going private is just paying to jump the queue to see the same person)

I mean if all the health professions who are all self employed (as a pp said dentists are) eventually refused to care for NHS patients what would happen?! And if there's something stopping this happening then why doesn't it currently apply to dentists?

Dh didn't get orthodontic treatment on the nhs like he should have because his parents could not be arsed.

That has now started to cause issues as a result of the position of his teeth.

He's opted to spend a small fortune now to save money in the longer term. Which the NHS would have had to shoulder a lot of the cost of if we had managed to stay private.

@itrytomakemyway

I have been on denplan for about 10 years. I had no choice as we have had no NHS dentists here for years.

I have good teeth. I have only had two fillings my whole life - but I'm getting older and I know that my luck may not last. From denplan I got two check ups and two scale and polish a year. I have had a letter telling me that due to covid costs this will be cut to one a year.

I am angry. For 16 months during covid my dentist was only doing emergency work - no check ups. My denplan was still being paid every month though. I managed to beg for a check up after this time. Two check ups missed, but paid for.

My dentist must have had a good regular income from denplan during the covid months. I paid for a service I could not access. I now have to pay the same for half of a service.

Did your denplan payments actually reach your dentist during the pandemic or did the insurers just pocket the payments?

The denplan quote I had some years ago theoretically based on my dental needs (good teeth, no fillings or treatment for years) cost more per month that I had been paying in a year on the NHS. Like others I had had a check up, nothing said at the appointment and then sent a letter to say that they were dropping NHS work and I would need to sign up with denplan to stay with the practice. I walked as it wasn't affordable. Fortunately moved house and was able to get a NHS dentist.

They are definitely using Covid to get rid of NHS. I had an appointment which was cancelled. The text actually said we will contact you when we can resume but appointments will be prioritied. I then got another text saying we won’t be opening until next year. Again said we will be in touch. I heard of another person getting an appointment so I phoned got told I hadn’t been in so being struck off. I said the I was told you would contact. They then said you didn’t give us an updated telephone number. I went there in the end with the two text, luckily I hadn’t deleted, and said this is the same number iv always had and you text me on last time. Reluctantly they let me have an appointment in the end. I wonder how many people there were waiting because they were told they would be contacted and struck off. I understand it’s common to phone for appointments and I do but when someone says we will be in touch you take them at face value.

DS had slightly gappy teeth. He did not meet the bar for NHS orthodontics as work was cosmetic only. It cost just under £3k. He pays to have his teeth whitened; they were naturally not gleaming white.

I think if left to this government (or in fact labour who brought in the massive con that was the 2006 contract!) then the dental health of the nation will be a mess. But it already is! Lots of people smoke, eat loads of sugar, not cleaning properly and only turn up in pain. When they only turn up in pain they then end up with an extraction or expensive complex treatment. If they came regularly they would be able to have a small filling.
Personally I think we need a core system whereby only children and exempt adults get NHS which entities you to exam, scale, fillings, extractions, root fillings and crowns for front teeth and premolars but not molars. Plastic dentures to replace front teeth.
This should be claimed for from the nhs on a fee per item system but free to the patient. Adults who aren’t exempt and therefore earn enough to pay, pay privately.

My dentist must have had a good regular income from denplan during the covid months. I paid for a service I could not access.

To be fair, Denplan was amazing! Denplan fees during lockdown allowed me to pay my overheads fir a few months, such as GDC registration, indemnity, insurance, practice heating/IT bills, HR and accountancy support in a crisis time. Denplan fees helped to pay my nurses what I could.

It was a time that was "unprecedented" as has been quoted many times. I wouldn't call it a regular income so much as a way of avoiding total bankruptcy.

We we were allowed to open up again in July, we made sure our Denplan patients were prioritised. Denplan themselves have us an allocation of PPE to help make this happen. So whilst there was a delay in checkups, in the same way that lockdown caused a delay in MOTs, haircuts and driving tests, we still did manage to make sure that all Denplan patients got their two yearly checkups in 2020. The occasional one that slipped through the net either got their payments frozen for several months, or money back. I didn't lose a single patient.

What do I think will happen with NHS dentistry? I think it will go the same way as a lot of other countries such as Ireland, USA and Australia. There will be a core basic service provided by the government to cover emergencies and toothaches. Everything else will need to be private. The only way I see that NOT happening, is if the government invest significantly in the service

The system is crumbling because it’s run by bureaucrats who simply don’t understand dentistry. And the government don’t care. Lobby your MPs for change or nothing will

Hospital doctors are employed. Obviously if they choose not to work in an NHS hospital they can work privately on a self employed basis. Most don’t.

@Laiste

So - pp said all dentists are self employed and none have to do NHS work.

Now - genuine question - what other health profession is like this? Are ALL surgeons, for example, also self employed?

(When my mother went private for a knee op a few years ago she saw the same surgeon she would have seen if she'd sat on the NHS waiting list. Going private is just paying to jump the queue to see the same person)

I mean if all the health professions who are all self employed (as a pp said dentists are) eventually refused to care for NHS patients what would happen?! And if there's something stopping this happening then why doesn't it currently apply to dentists?

Pharmacies, GP surgeries, opticians are all private businesses with NHS contracts. So the majority of primary care. It’s really as simple as if the government would like a service provided they need to pay for it. But they’ve slashed funding so a large amount of pharmacies closed, Dentists can no longer do NHS work, there aren’t enough GPs. Nobody is obliged to do any job and intelligent and well trained employees are in demand either for private work or in alternative careers. Making contracts unviable is a way of privatisation without the big announcement

Im one of those NHS dentists who was working full time for frankly no where near enough money to justify the stress (I’m a soft touch!) and honestly these threads make me want to change career. Clearly all my patients think I’m swindling them.

We aren’t running a con - there’s just not enough money to make it viable to stay open on the NHS and if a dentist leaves a practice and they can’t recruit then they will obviously have to cut patients. The contract and this government failing to fix it or train enough of us (and losing lots of dentists to Brexit) are to blame but really dentistry has been declining for a long time.

If the country wants more NHS dentists they need to make the job more attractive!

I'm interested that no appointment for 2 years is being given as a reason to ditch patients. I managed to prise my way into my dentist's in December and the schoolboy - maybe not but he looked about 12 - new dentist said I hadn't attended in the last 2 years. Not so, I've never missed a dental check up in the last 10 years, ditto hygienist. Any cancellations were by them and due to covid. We had a firm exchange of views with me insisting he check the records right now in my presence. I wonder if they would have ditched me quietly if I hadn't chipped a tooth and insisted I needed an appointment which, coincidentally, fell within the 2 years since last appointment. I'm considering insurance now.

@BungleandGeorge said it better ^

I am private but my two kids are NHS & free at my dentist. I don't pay anything for them and just sign a NHS form each time they are seen.

Bloody hell.

Ours has been private for years but no monthly fees!

£25 for a child's check up.

£60 for an adult's.

Work on top.

DD will need braces god bless her but I'm hoping the orthodontist will be NHS if not subsidised.

@NommyChompers

Im one of those NHS dentists who was working full time for frankly no where near enough money to justify the stress (I’m a soft touch!) and honestly these threads make me want to change career. Clearly all my patients think I’m swindling them.

We aren’t running a con - there’s just not enough money to make it viable to stay open on the NHS and if a dentist leaves a practice and they can’t recruit then they will obviously have to cut patients. The contract and this government failing to fix it or train enough of us (and losing lots of dentists to Brexit) are to blame but really dentistry has been declining for a long time.

If the country wants more NHS dentists they need to make the job more attractive!

We aren’t running a con - there’s just not enough money to make it viable to stay open on the NHS …

Can you see why people think this though? Dentists just bumping people off the books for no reason (most had ongoing treatment and/or were attending regular check ups) forcing people to go private. Imagine if GPs did that, why is it different for dentists?

@SilverontheTree it’s not true that if you go to the dentist regularly and look after your teeth you’ll never need any complex treatment is it? And the cut off for free dentistry is about 15k annual salary.

OP what I would say is that £10 per month for an under 16 is very expensive for even private dentistry and I would shop around. For some reason all the dentists I’ve looked at do charge full price for 16-18 which makes no sense

@longwayoff hate to break it to you but According to the contract there is no such thing as being registered unless you are in the middle of a course of treatment.

The registration thing is more of a tradition to reward loyal patients. Maybe reconsider how you talk to the staff at the dental practice or you may find them reminding you that They are really only seeing you as a courtesy.

So its right that a huge amount of people only go to the dentist when they are in pain. Its also correct that we have a reputation for bad teeth. We dont want to spend ANY money on them, we want the NHS to fund it and even then we often cannot be bothered to use the service.

I have a couple of dentists in the family (retired). They did ooh service and found people messed them around so much I think they were massively relieved when they hung up their toothbrushes.

As I have said on previous threads. We need to review the NHS as a whole. It needs a massive shake up which will sensibly be required to pay something towards for their treatment.

But I dont think that is going to happen anytime soon. I also wonder how many people now have private medical insurance. I used to have it with my old company left it for a few years and am now funding it again.

DD hasn't had NHS dental care since she was 10. I also haven't had NHS for a long, long time. I'm sick of private care, I've had so much work that I'm suspicious that I didn't need, they do x rays at the drop of a hat. They wanted to do major work on DDs teeth with a brace, then it turned out they couldn't as she has no wisdom teeth, yet 6yrs later her teeth are fine.
We struggle to afford it, although we do have insurance.

[quote BungleandGeorge]@SilverontheTree it’s not true that if you go to the dentist regularly and look after your teeth you’ll never need any complex treatment is it? And the cut off for free dentistry is about 15k annual salary.

OP what I would say is that £10 per month for an under 16 is very expensive for even private dentistry and I would shop around. For some reason all the dentists I’ve looked at do charge full price for 16-18 which makes no sense[/quote]
Exactly I looked after mine perfectly. I have a small mouth and my dentist when I was a child didn’t take enough of my teeth out to account for my wisdom teeth. So when they came through they impacted into my sinus cavity, became infected and I couldn’t chew for 2 months. Nothing to do with looking after teeth!

I also wonder how many people now have private medical insurance.

We've always had some form of medical insurance, but it just gets prohibitively more expensive as you age, and harder to change when you are more likely to have acquired an ailment or two along the way.