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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be worried by how many people don't know roughly how much energy they use?

234 replies

cakeorwine · 10/02/2022 19:11

Read loads of threads on here about people being surprised by their bills. I appreciate that some people struggle to read meters but Smart Meters are more common nowadays and people do get regular bills.

It seems that there are people who are unaware of how much they pay per KWH, their standing charge and roughly how many units they use - and how it can vary.

For information - the 'average house' is supposed to use 2400 KWH of electricity and 12,000 KWH of gas per year.

That's what the price cap is based on - with the appropriate charge per KWH and a standing charge.

Knowing what you pay per month isn't that helpful if you don't know how much you use - and that's when the new charges and tariffs are going to hurt.

If you know what devices use power, you may be able to make changes.

I know some people know this and how much power they use but I worry that there are many people who don't and will get really caught out.

OP posts:
Inspectorslack · 11/02/2022 08:48

If you’re private renting you can’t equity release and downsizing will be difficult due to the shortage of properties for rent at the moment.

GeneLovesJezebel · 11/02/2022 08:48

I’ve no idea what we use or how much we pay per KW.
Perhaps that’s because we no longer get paper bills. Also, only DH gets emails about it.
I know what we pay per month, and I know that I’m fighting a losing battle with my DH who will happily open windows and then turn the heating up when he’s cold, and leaves all sorts turned on and plugged in.

AllOfUsAreDead · 11/02/2022 08:49

@cakeorwine

I don't know *@AllOfUsAreDead*

I can imagine there are households who have got used to their fixed tariff and good deal they got and are 'just about managing' who are going to see their new Direct debit go up massively when their deal ends. Even though they are using the same amount of energy.

But they will have ways to make it lower. To not have the heating on all day, to not take very long showers, have lots of technology on in the house all day etc. You can't go lower when you're already at the lowest you can go of usage.
BarbaraofSeville · 11/02/2022 08:50

Sorry, forgot the links to the podcasts:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02pc9xt/episodes/downloads

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qjnv/episodes/player

(Even though they are BBC, you can get them free from podcast apps without needing a TV licence although I do acknowledge that requires a smartphone or mp3 player and I know that not everyone has a smartphone, and is more common amongst groups most affected by fuel poverty eg elderly and/or very poor).

But I still maintain that not being able to help absolutely everyone doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to help most people Smile.

DorsVenabili · 11/02/2022 08:54

I don't have a clue how much we use or how much it is per unit- i'm renting and my ability to impact only the electricity/power usage is limited. yes better insulation/heating etc would be good- but would come at the cost of extra rent anyway.
i'm honest enough to know that my personal behaviour is unlikely to change much . i switch suppliers and that's about it.
i do sometimes think threads like these push responsibility to individuals- eg you are in someway remiss if you didn't know- it shouldn't take away from the broader of responsibity of Governments/regulators to protect people from massive rate increases

Oblomov22 · 11/02/2022 09:18

No idea. Dh deals with it, swaps, looks for best deal etc.

CailleachGranda · 11/02/2022 09:37

Do you work for CAB, OP?

Or an energy company and are going to recommend some rate

Why else would you be worried about what other people know?

GrolliffetheDragon · 11/02/2022 10:48

The average electricity use seems low to me, we're more like 4400KWh, but we have an electric shower and a (rarely used) immersion heater.

7500KWh for gas, heating and cooking as we have a gas cooker. Heating is used fairly minimally, only on for an hour and a quarter a day at the moment.

We have a smart meter, so I do keep an eye on the daily spend, but there's little I can do about most of it. I can't use the computer less as I'm WFH, I turn lights off, don't really watch TV, don't have a tumble dryer or a dishwasher.

SparklyLeprechaun · 11/02/2022 10:52

I know how much I pay per month, if I really need to know how much I use I can check, but it's not going to make any difference to my consumption.

GeneLovesJezebel · 11/02/2022 11:03

@CailleachGranda

Do you work for CAB, OP?

Or an energy company and are going to recommend some rate

Why else would you be worried about what other people know?

Perhaps the OP is a DM journalist looking for a story.
Kite22 · 11/02/2022 12:02

[quote LoveMyPiano]@Kite22

So predictable Confused As if it is not possible to be interested in the detaiil of things and be able to have fun as well.

Who'd have thought it?[/quote]
Of course we all have different ways of having fun, but I'll wager a fair bit that pouring over spreadsheets is a fun evening for quite a small minority of the population.
The point is, the OP hasn't come on and said, "I've been doing X,Y,Z, and have discovered A,B,C"...she's trying to suggest that everyone ought to know the amount of KWH they use in a year and the price they are paying per KWH.

I am aware of that when I sit down to change suppliers, but - like so many other people - it isn't something that I "need to know" throughout the year. Therefore, inspecting it daily isn't of interest to most of the population. There's an expression about pigs not getting fatter by weighing them daily, and the same point applies to this debate - my bills aren't going to get smaller by me committing to memory the amount of KWH I use in a day/week/month/ year, or committing to memory the amount each of those KWH is costing me. So why put time and energy into doing that?

That’s also a good point. I am a child of the 70s and I I remember power cuts and I grew up poor. Turning off lights and be aware of the cost of things is wired in for me.
Exactly the same for me. I already am sensible with use of gas and electricity, but am also in the fortunate position of no longer needing to panic about spending a few hundred pound more in a year when we, as a population have not been able to spend very much for the last 2 years due to so much of the things people spend money on having been closed. So I don't need to limit the number of cuppas I have in the day, or choose to read a book rather than faff about on the internet.

You need to know broadly whether you use a little or a lot (to choose a deal) and what appliances are energy-hungry (broadly, anything that heats or moves), but anything beyond that is pretty academic.
Knowing that my kettle is 2kW and that I use it 10 minutes a day isn’t going to alter my behaviour.

Agreed

I don’t know. We are frugal and can’t cut much more, so I don’t know how it would help.

and this is the case for many.

I have no clue, like I don't know how many gallons of petrol goes in my car. I know how much I pay a month and I know how much it costs to fill up my car.

This is a good comparison. I know if I drive fewer miles, I could cut down on petrol. I could, if I wanted to, do the maths to work out how many gallons I buy each month but if I have essential journeys (say getting to work where there was no public transport), then I still have to put that petrol in no matter how much the price rises. Gas and electric is much the same. I can have my heating on less or not put the TV on to cut back if I need to save money if I need to, or think it is worth it for me, but I would do that if I needed to regardless of how many KWH I use a year.

As has been repeated throughout this thread - a campaign to highlight how much different things cost to run would be a great idea. I agree with the 'Knowledge is Power' train of thought, but the knowledge that people need is this, not what the OP was suggesting.

Svara · 11/02/2022 12:25

ecocostsavings.com/dehumidifier-wattage-most-efficient/

Average wattage is about 500 watts.
So 14p per hour based on the new cost per unit

Thanks @cakeorwine
Do you know how people use them? Do I need to shut the washing in the same room? At the moment it is dried in front of a radiator in the sitting room as that's the room I have the radiators turned up in. I wouldn't want to run it for long so I don't know if it is worth it, I don't know if 55% humidity is too much of a concern?

Creamegg84 · 11/02/2022 12:55

We've just had our annual summary emailed to us. We use 6800 kw elec. I can't understand why it's so high. We live in a normal house. It's always been high. But we use less gas than most 9000kw

Potplantsaredead · 11/02/2022 15:53

I'm not sure why people are questioning the OP's motives, maybe they are just genuinely concerned that lots of people are sleepwalking into a fuel crisis of their own that they perhaps need to consider ahead of time.

1vandal2 · 11/02/2022 16:03

I only have electric and can't afford to get the expensive hot blowing air type heaters my flat came with replaced. I use about 5500kwh every year and that is with being careful and only putting heaters on when it's freezing.

Gowithme · 11/02/2022 16:26

Well those averages don't work round here as we don't have mains gas unfortunately.
Our last bill was £300 for 3 months the latest one is £500. Our estimated annual usage for the year is about 7000 kw which includes water and heating. We can't cut any more that's for sure, we only heat three rooms and have an immersion heater that we only have on over night a couple of times a week (economy 7). We don't have hot water for several days of the week unless we boil the kettle (a lot cheaper than heating the immersion).

Blondeshavemorefun · 11/02/2022 18:43

@cakeorwine just looked online and says

Electricity is 6398 kWh

Gas 18714 kWh

So I’m way over 😢😢

Says electricty cost is £1465 and gas £854 so £2319/12 so £194 a month

I pay 160 at the moment so another 34 x 12 so extra 408 a year 😱😱😢😢

cakeorwine · 11/02/2022 18:44

@Potplantsaredead

I'm not sure why people are questioning the OP's motives, maybe they are just genuinely concerned that lots of people are sleepwalking into a fuel crisis of their own that they perhaps need to consider ahead of time.
I don't work for the DM or an energy company. I do work for a charity and we are getting calls from people who have been hit with expensive DD requests after their tariff expired and they are struggling to afford the increased amounts. I don't work on the phones but I am aware of the issues.

There is an issue coming. My lovely fixed deal that was supposed to be till 2023 came to a halt because the company collapsed. My new costs have dramatically increased and that's even before the new amounts in April.

Knowing some of the ways you can make an impact on your usage will make a difference.

I think the supermarket analogy is useful. Imagine going to a supermarket, not knowing the prices but buying food and then being given a food bill. Averaged over the year so you pay £100 a month to the supermarket. Then it suddenly increases to £150 or more a month.

You'd want to know what your were buying and using in more detail so you can see where you can make changes. And what changes don't make much of a difference.

It's the same with energy. Knowing how you use energy in the house in more detail can give you knowledge to help make changes. And maybe save money.

OP posts:
cakeorwine · 11/02/2022 18:52

[quote Blondeshavemorefun]@cakeorwine just looked online and says

Electricity is 6398 kWh

Gas 18714 kWh

So I’m way over 😢😢

Says electricty cost is £1465 and gas £854 so £2319/12 so £194 a month

I pay 160 at the moment so another 34 x 12 so extra 408 a year 😱😱😢😢[/quote]
The new estimate for you with the new tariff is £3364 compared to £2319
This is from April on the new price cap.

Gas: 7p / KWH, 27p per day standing charge (4p, 25p previous)
Electricity: 28p / KWN, 45p per day standing charge (21p, 25p previous)

OP posts:
peaceanddove · 11/02/2022 19:09

I have zero idea how much power we use.

LoveMyPiano · 11/02/2022 19:17

@Kite22

I didn't say it WAS fun. I said that doing that kind of thing does not mean that I don't have fun in other ways (horses, bikes, swimming pools, singing, dancing and playing the piano.....).

It took me 10 minutes, which was a relief, as I thought I had lost the skill, along with my marbles.

In general, I would have thought that a consumer MIGHT like to know how much they use and what it costs, as , as we are now seeing, that use can quite possibly stay the same, but cost a whole lot more due to price inceases - in the way of food, petrol/diesel and so on.

Maybe SOME people - who do not have the luxury of not knowing or caring what their usage is - would like an easy way to preview what their bill might be, which is where my spreadsheet, or made into an app, might help. Especially now.

cakeorwine · 11/02/2022 19:25

Maybe SOME people - who do not have the luxury of not knowing or caring what their usage is - would like an easy way to preview what their bill might be, which is where my spreadsheet, or made into an app, might help. Especially now

I haven't found an easy to use online calculator where you can put your usage in and it will tell you your costs on the current price cap, what it will be from April and what it could be in October..

OP posts:
M0rT · 11/02/2022 19:33

@Inspectorslack thank you, that is good to know.

LoveMyPiano · 11/02/2022 22:59

@cakeorwine

Maybe SOME people - who do not have the luxury of not knowing or caring what their usage is - would like an easy way to preview what their bill might be, which is where my spreadsheet, or made into an app, might help. Especially now

I haven't found an easy to use online calculator where you can put your usage in and it will tell you your costs on the current price cap, what it will be from April and what it could be in October..

I am so surprised that there is not such a thing..... a few minutes in Excel and it can be done (if the figures are known, as of course, all energy companies have about a thousand different tariffs) and the options quite quickly calculated Smile
cakeorwine · 12/02/2022 07:57

I am so surprised that there is not such a thing..... a few minutes in Excel and it can be done (if the figures are known, as of course, all energy companies have about a thousand different tariffs) and the options quite quickly calculated

It's more for the future. I haven't found a simple calculator that will tell you what you will be paying under the new tariff. Just the figures that the cost per KWH and standing charges will be.

And of course, costs will no doubt go up in October, when people will use more gas.

So we have 6 months from April to October with gas at 7p per KWH and then in October, gas will no doubt increase. Gas is currently about 4p per KWH.

OP posts: