to be worried by how many people don't know roughly how much energy they use?

[cakeorwine]

Read loads of threads on here about people being surprised by their bills. I appreciate that some people struggle to read meters but Smart Meters are more common nowadays and people do get regular bills.

It seems that there are people who are unaware of how much they pay per KWH, their standing charge and roughly how many units they use - and how it can vary.

For information - the 'average house' is supposed to use 2400 KWH of electricity and 12,000 KWH of gas per year.

That's what the price cap is based on - with the appropriate charge per KWH and a standing charge.

Knowing what you pay per month isn't that helpful if you don't know how much you use - and that's when the new charges and tariffs are going to hurt.

If you know what devices use power, you may be able to make changes.

I know some people know this and how much power they use but I worry that there are many people who don't and will get really caught out.

How would it help to know how many units that is

An example

Say you have 2900 units per year (2000 KWH)

If you had a 8 kilowatt shower and it was used for 15 minutes per day, that's 2 units per day = 730 units per year.

If you changed that to 10 minutes, that's 8 * 0.166 = 1.3 units = 484 units per year

You've saved 730 - 484 = 246 KWH. Saving you about £70 per year

Or 10% of your actual electricity usage.

@Etten

Has that average use data been updated since people are WFH more now and consequently using more energy. This can be offset by reduced commuting costs and not buying a daily coffee.

This is the thing. It's not as simple as just using items less. For e.g. we need to do three loads of washing a week and have room to dry one. If I switch the radiator off in that room I'd need to use the tumble dryer. I can use the non-electric shower in the main bathroom but that's heated by the gas boiler, or have a bath which increases the water bill.

But if you’re skint and worried about the cost you’d just say “hey kids the electric cost is killing us so no more long showers cut them shorter”. You don’t need to know the kWh?

I don’t have a water bill. That’s covered in the rates here.

@Inspectorslack

But if you’re skint and worried about the cost you’d just say “hey kids the electric cost is killing us so no more long showers cut them shorter”. You don’t need to know the kWh?

And you would know roughly how much it would cost when your DC asks what it costs. And settle on a reasonable time.

Is it better to have shorter showers or less time on the X Box? Or the TV,

Which is the best thing to target to be most effective?

I know how much I pay and have always opted to pay for what I used so I submit meter readings online each month. However maths are not my strong point so I don't know the cost per KWH or find it easy to calculate really.

@cakeorwine

How would it help to know how many units that is

An example

Say you have 2900 units per year (2000 KWH)

If you had a 8 kilowatt shower and it was used for 15 minutes per day, that's 2 units per day = 730 units per year.

If you changed that to 10 minutes, that's 8 * 0.166 = 1.3 units = 484 units per year

You've saved 730 - 484 = 246 KWH. Saving you about £70 per year

Or 10% of your actual electricity usage.

I'm pretty sure your spreadsheet could also be adapted to include the temperature outdoors, the temperature of incoming water and the heat-transfer coefficients of all your walls and ceilings

In the real world all you need to know if that things that heat up are very expensive, and things that heat up by lecky are four times as expensive as things that heat up by gas. If your bills are too high cut back on unnecessary electrically-generated hotness.

DC won’t ask what it costs.

I’d tell them I can afford x amount and we need to cut back.

Xbox is .2 of a kWh I had a screen time limit. Increasing or decreasing by an hour or two a week would make a very few pence of a difference over a week.

I'm sure I could find out this information on my online account .....but I haven't got the headspace for it......I won't go cold....I can afford not to....I have a smart meter ( inherited with the house) so I know I'm paying for what I've used

If my rate for easy working out is 25p per unit decreasing the Xbox use by an hour a week would make a difference of 1/5 of 1 unit a week. So 5p.

I love numbers, maths, spreadsheets - and have tracked bills and therefore the upward - and very occasionally downward - changes in prices, since 2000. Don't ask me why, I just do like to do it and the knowledge does reassure me and give me a bit of "power" [sorry] when I need to speak to an existing or potential supplier.

I know absolutely what my monthly annual usage is, with summer and winter variations. It interests me, regardless of my income. Only yesterday, I made a paper version and an Excel of a small calculator which enables entering meter readings and tariffs, to calculate an anticipated bill, so no nasty suprises. This was for someone else, I of course already have my own!

I do dislike the layout of my BG bill and believe it needs to be plainer, particularly noting that the Gas Units from meter readings need to be converted to kWh for the price to make sense, which is not clear at all, let alone how they include VAT in the tariff price, but separate it out on the bill (not necessary for the average domestic user).

I have come across people who did not understand their bill at all, and in some cases have been badly overcharged, but just "left it" - which I am sure the suppliers find perfectly acceptable.

Oh, I have also tracked my car fuel consumption and therefore fuel prices since 2000 as well (shrug). Note, we have paid more than we are currently - as high as 159.9 (not m/way) for premium diesel.

And yes, I do have A Life (sort of anyway) x

I know my car costs more per mile to run than a diesel or an electric car.

But it didn’t cost me much on the first place and it’s old and I’ve no intention of replacing it until it’s done.

If I’m skint I’d go less places. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Only yesterday, I made a paper version and an Excel of a small calculator which enables entering meter readings and tariffs, to calculate an anticipated bill, so no nasty suprises. This was for someone else, I of course already have my own

Me to. With monthly usage and an estimate for October's increase in the cost of energy

If you are changing, and if you are running devices like showers etc, it can surprise people to realise that their 10 minute shower cost 50p

So what you should have asked is something along the lines of do you think it would be helpful for there to be more publicity around how much different devices cost to run?

You'd have got very different answers to that question, as I think that would be a very useful campaign, and might surprise a few people.

Bills are going to go up - with an effect on people's expenditure. There seems to be quite a few people who aren't aware of what their usage is and what really needs to be done to reduce bills

Again, you don't need to know how many KWHs you use in a year, or the individual price of a KWH that you are paying. What "the public at large" might benefit from is more publicity about how much certain devices use, and then people can make an informed choice about how important it is to them that they straighten their hair, or if they cook a single jacket potato in an oven or a microwave, if they either need, or want to.

Would it be useful to know which gadgets don't use much energy and those that do - so you would know roughly what it cost to run them?

YES.
This would be helpful to quite a lot of people I think.
Not knowing how many KWHs they use over a year, but how they can make choices each day between enjoying that 10 min shower enough to spend 50p on it, or preferring to have a 5 min shower and spend 25p (which, as you say, in a larger family would add up over a year). How important that money is to the family budget will be different for everyone, as will how relaxing / refreshing / mindblowing a longer shower is to different people.

@cakeorwine

Only yesterday, I made a paper version and an Excel of a small calculator which enables entering meter readings and tariffs, to calculate an anticipated bill, so no nasty suprises. This was for someone else, I of course already have my own

Me to. With monthly usage and an estimate for October's increase in the cost of energy

But a lot of us have far more interesting, and even fun things to do with our leisure time.

@cakeorwine

Honestly I don’t know what benefit it would be to me to know how many kWh of electricity I use as I can’t cut back much more. It’s more useful for my budget to know how much in £ it costs me

Would it be useful to know which gadgets don't use much energy and those that do - so you would know roughly what it cost to run them?

Absolutely. Where do I get this information? Only lists I've ever found online seem really out of date. Modern appliances are much more energy efficient than even 10 years ago and obviously the lists that only give cost and not energy usage would be very out of date.

I have 2 freezers and we could go down to 1, but I don't know which one uses more energy. One is half the age but an upright, the chest freezer is 20+ years old but chest freezers generally use less power. I suppose I could buy an energy meter and check...

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.techadvisor.com/how-to/appliances/what-do-your-appliances-cost-3780330/%3famp

But a lot of us have far more interesting, and even fun things to do with our leisure time

Are you saying spreadsheets aren't interesting and fun?

Based on an estimate of October's increase, my predicted gas bill will go from £140 in a month to £340 in a month. That's just for January 23 compared to Jan 22

If I can look at how I can make changes in that month, I can save money by making specific targeted changes.

I don’t like spreadsheets. They’re my idea of hell.

How do you get a smart meter for electricity? I’ve been on a waiting list since before covid

Im tied on a pre payment smart meter that i can't move companies so I have to lump it and pay
Currently pay about £110 a month for electric and gas about £400 a year
3 bed terrace expect with bills going up I will be paying more but no idea what , bit I have to just pay ot and sacrifice other things as I have np chpice

Based on an estimate of October's increase, my predicted gas bill will go from £140 in a month to £340 in a month. That's just for January 23 compared to Jan 22

I just freaked myself out.

That's for 3 months. Spreadsheets are great but they need to be read carefully.

I know that I use about 2000kwh electric and about 5500kwh gas
Fixed rate until October

It’s an interesting maths question. Work out how many minutes (roughly) you use straightners and roughly how much water you boil in a kettle in a year and see which costs mosts.

@cakeorwine
I know how to calculate this. You’ve said in your post that to boil water for a cup of tea costs 1 p. Also that people should know about this so they wouldn’t worry about cup of tea as it’s only 1 p. The point I’m making that it’s a wrong approach. If I boiled tea 10 times per day it would cost me quite a significant amount over a year.
It’s actually about £190 in my case.

@cakeorwine

Only yesterday, I made a paper version and an Excel of a small calculator which enables entering meter readings and tariffs, to calculate an anticipated bill, so no nasty suprises. This was for someone else, I of course already have my own

Me to. With monthly usage and an estimate for October's increase in the cost of energy

High five!

I do realise that a smart meter renders my work pointless, but as far as I'm concerned, the actual calculations make it easier to understand the bills themselves and what they represent. I refuse a smart meter.

I am my OWN smart meter