to be worried by how many people don't know roughly how much energy they use?

[cakeorwine]

Read loads of threads on here about people being surprised by their bills. I appreciate that some people struggle to read meters but Smart Meters are more common nowadays and people do get regular bills.

It seems that there are people who are unaware of how much they pay per KWH, their standing charge and roughly how many units they use - and how it can vary.

For information - the 'average house' is supposed to use 2400 KWH of electricity and 12,000 KWH of gas per year.

That's what the price cap is based on - with the appropriate charge per KWH and a standing charge.

Knowing what you pay per month isn't that helpful if you don't know how much you use - and that's when the new charges and tariffs are going to hurt.

If you know what devices use power, you may be able to make changes.

I know some people know this and how much power they use but I worry that there are many people who don't and will get really caught out.

@Kite22

So predictable As if it is not possible to be interested in the detaiil of things and be able to have fun as well.

Who'd have thought it?

I was flabbergasted by DP earlier

"But the electricity isn't metered"

"Yes it is, you're thinking of the water"

"But we always pay the same amount every month"

2400 KWH of electricity more like 5500 12,000 KWH of gas and 17321

No wonder my bill is bloody high

It’s actually about £190 in my case

That is a lot of tea.

At 1p a cup, that's 52 cups a day.

13357 for gas sorry. Just electricity that's stupid high

@cakeorwine

Read loads of threads on here about people being surprised by their bills. I appreciate that some people struggle to read meters but Smart Meters are more common nowadays and people do get regular bills.

It seems that there are people who are unaware of how much they pay per KWH, their standing charge and roughly how many units they use - and how it can vary.

For information - the 'average house' is supposed to use 2400 KWH of electricity and 12,000 KWH of gas per year.

That's what the price cap is based on - with the appropriate charge per KWH and a standing charge.

Knowing what you pay per month isn't that helpful if you don't know how much you use - and that's when the new charges and tariffs are going to hurt.

If you know what devices use power, you may be able to make changes.

I know some people know this and how much power they use but I worry that there are many people who don't and will get really caught out.

Offgem has decided those with smart meters can be charged more

I thought I knew and I was wrong, now I do know, I am obsessive and totally get why my parents would shout "Turn the bathroom light off!!! Its like Blackpool bloody Illuminations in this house!"

That’s also a good point. I am a child of the 70s and I I remember power cuts and I grew up poor. Turning off lights and be aware of the cost of things is wired in for me.

How does knowing help you?

You need to know broadly whether you use a little or a lot (to choose a deal) and what appliances are energy-hungry (broadly, anything that heats or moves), but anything beyond that is pretty academic.

Knowing that my kettle is 2kW and that I use it 10 minutes a day isn’t going to alter my behaviour.

The other thing is. If you’re feeling the pinch then all your budgets will have to be cut.

The issue isn’t just kWh of appliances - it’s what do those who are already living in poverty cut. Someone already budgeting tight won’t have anything to cut. They’ll have to choose between heat or light at the crudest level.

I don’t know. We are frugal and can’t cut much more, so I don’t know how it would help.

I have no idea. I rent, don't have bills, electricity is done by the landlord of the block. I pay a small amount per month which covers everything from water to heating, regardless of what I use. I try to be careful but otherwise I manage to live my life without knowing KWH......

I have no clue, like I don't know how many gallons of petrol goes in my car. I know how much I pay a month and I know how much it costs to fill up my car.

Anyone know what dehumidifiers cost to run? House is at 55% and internet seems to suggest lower is optimal in the winter months?

@Svara

Anyone know what dehumidifiers cost to run? House is at 55% and internet seems to suggest lower is optimal in the winter months?

ecocostsavings.com/dehumidifier-wattage-most-efficient/

Average wattage is about 500 watts.
So 14p per hour based on the new cost per unit

It's an interesting article on power usage

@greenlynx

It’s an interesting maths question. Work out how many minutes (roughly) you use straightners and roughly how much water you boil in a kettle in a year and see which costs mosts.

@cakeorwine
I know how to calculate this. You’ve said in your post that to boil water for a cup of tea costs 1 p. Also that people should know about this so they wouldn’t worry about cup of tea as it’s only 1 p. The point I’m making that it’s a wrong approach. If I boiled tea 10 times per day it would cost me quite a significant amount over a year.
It’s actually about £190 in my case.

I feel for you. That's making 4 cups of tea 10 times per day. So about 40 cups of tea. About 40 p per day.

You must spend a lot of time drinking tea in your house.
You must spend a lot on tea bags as well.

I think what is concerning is if people aren't aware of the scale of the price increases.

If someone signed up to an annual fix early in 2021, once it finishes some time in the next few months their new unit prices and standing charge will be more than double and they could go from a bill of around £100 a month to nearly £250. That's an enormous increase that many won't cope with, but even if they can, it will significantly impact many people's disposable income.

As to whether knowing about this, of course it does. Knowledge is power (do you see what I did there).

Is there scope to cut your usage? I've seen many many comments on MN of the 'I hate being cold so I'll put my heating on when I like' or 'We all shower at least once a day, often twice' or 'I wash everything after one wear and the washing machine is on several times a day on the quick wash cycles (which people seem to be blissfully ignorant of the fact that this often uses more energy not less) and everything is tumble dried because I haven't got time to peg out even in good weather and I do have the space'. So a lot of people could reduce the impact of the price rises by cutting their excessive use, which they should be doing for environmental reasons anyway.

Then there's what can be done for lower income households to help with the cost, when they don't have the budget to absorb the price rises. While it is likely to be insufficient, there is help available, so if you're in this position, knowing about what you use, and how much the price increases will affect you will help you plan and apply for any help you may qualify for, hopefully before your rates go up and your costs rise beyond your budget.

Or may you need to take more drastic action like improving your insulation and heating efficiency, looking for grants, or even downsizing, moving to a property that is cheaper to run or applying for equity release to use your housing assets to help meet higher living costs if this is something available to you.

These are the things people need to be thinking about now, not just ignoring it until either they get an enormous bill in a year's time or their energy company wants to triple their direct debit to pay for energy they've used because they've not thought about how it costs a lot more than it used to.

That's such a good post @BarbaraofSeville

Knowledge is power

We're using about 14300kWh of each. Nice to know the gas is under that average....

@BarbaraofSeville

I think what is concerning is if people aren't aware of the scale of the price increases.

If someone signed up to an annual fix early in 2021, once it finishes some time in the next few months their new unit prices and standing charge will be more than double and they could go from a bill of around £100 a month to nearly £250. That's an enormous increase that many won't cope with, but even if they can, it will significantly impact many people's disposable income.

As to whether knowing about this, of course it does. Knowledge is power (do you see what I did there).

Is there scope to cut your usage? I've seen many many comments on MN of the 'I hate being cold so I'll put my heating on when I like' or 'We all shower at least once a day, often twice' or 'I wash everything after one wear and the washing machine is on several times a day on the quick wash cycles (which people seem to be blissfully ignorant of the fact that this often uses more energy not less) and everything is tumble dried because I haven't got time to peg out even in good weather and I do have the space'. So a lot of people could reduce the impact of the price rises by cutting their excessive use, which they should be doing for environmental reasons anyway.

Then there's what can be done for lower income households to help with the cost, when they don't have the budget to absorb the price rises. While it is likely to be insufficient, there is help available, so if you're in this position, knowing about what you use, and how much the price increases will affect you will help you plan and apply for any help you may qualify for, hopefully before your rates go up and your costs rise beyond your budget.

Or may you need to take more drastic action like improving your insulation and heating efficiency, looking for grants, or even downsizing, moving to a property that is cheaper to run or applying for equity release to use your housing assets to help meet higher living costs if this is something available to you.

These are the things people need to be thinking about now, not just ignoring it until either they get an enormous bill in a year's time or their energy company wants to triple their direct debit to pay for energy they've used because they've not thought about how it costs a lot more than it used to.

If you’re private renting and on benefits or otherwise very poor, where the money coming from to do those things?

It would be interesting (but impractical) to get a monthly bill breaking down the exact use of something - like you get a supermarket.

Shower: x hours at 10,000 w = Y KWH @ 28p = £34
TV : x hours at 200 w = Y KWH @28p = £5
Hairdryer: x hours at 1000 w = Y KWH @ 28p = £1.50

etc

Then you could see directly which items are costing you money.

Instead it's a bit like going to the supermarket and being told that your bill is £100 this time. And then deciding to cut down on everything instead of looking carefully at the receipt and making specific changes whilst keeping what you need.

I try and update my meter readings every other month to keep on top of things. The company I use put the monthly payment up last month to 'make sure I'm covered' and I dropped it back down again because they were wrong. The average usage for a house our size is more than what we actually use. Their analysis still doesn't seem to have picked up on this though. My monthly payments in winter are still the same as last year currently, will just have to wait and see how much it goes up to.

The average family does seem to use too much though than they need. Like heating on all day, people on here say they keep their homes to a set temperature. That's going to drive your amounts up instantly. Our heating is on twice a day and that's it.

But I'd imagine those who have their homes set to a specific temperature are not the ones to worry about. It's more the ones already struggling between food and heating, only having heating on once a day. Only eating simple meals. The ones in tshirts in their homes complaining about the prices just may not get an extravagant holiday abroad. The ones actually struggling are already cold in their homes.

But I'd imagine those who have their homes set to a specific temperature are not the ones to worry about. It's more the ones already struggling between food and heating, only having heating on once a day. Only eating simple meals. The ones in tshirts in their homes complaining about the prices just may not get an extravagant holiday abroad. The ones actually struggling are already cold in their homes.

I aheee with this.

If you’re private renting and on benefits or otherwise very poor, where the money coming from to do those things

I assume you mean things like investing in energy efficiency measures?

I did acknowledge that, for some, it may be that nothing can be done, but it doesn't mean that it's not worth trying, exploring every avenue, thinking outside the box and maybe making choices that are unpalatable but will improve living standards, eg downsizing or equity release.

I'm not saying the suggestions will solve everyone's problems, and sadly, the massive price rises will push a lot of people from 'just about managing' to 'not managing at all' but that doesn't mean it's not worth talking about solutions and raising awareness, because it might help some people.

Eg, I listened to a couple of podcasts while out in the car the other day and, while I would say I am more knowledgable than most about the price rises, budgeting and personal finance in general, I still learned a few things, eg as well as the £150 grants, £200 loan scheme, there's to be a discretionary fund for people who fall through the cracks.

I also learned about National Energy Action on here the other day. I'd never heard of this organisation, but their aim is to end fuel poverty so they provide advice and suggestions to people who need it. Many of their advice won't be suitable for everyone, but again, that doesn't mean that they should be dismissed with whataboutery.

They're currently running a campaign encouraging people who'll receive the £150 but don't really need it, to donate it to them, and I think that's an excellent idea, so I will be doing that, and also keep mentioning it, so more people will be aware of this.

I don't know @AllOfUsAreDead

I can imagine there are households who have got used to their fixed tariff and good deal they got and are 'just about managing' who are going to see their new Direct debit go up massively when their deal ends. Even though they are using the same amount of energy.