Working school hours?

[Isntisironic1]

I currently work part time, not badly paid but my partner who is self employed earns 5x what I earn. I have been employed my the same company for over 10 years. Since having my youngest (and my partner going self employed) I put in a request for flexible working which was accepted. For the past 4 years I’ve worked school hours and there’s never been a problem however we got a new manager a couple of months ago who keeps trying to rota me onto lates/earlies etc after I’ve already explained that I am unable to do these hours. She did it again yesterday for next months rota so I again mentioned that I would be unable to work the shifts due to lack of childcare etc and she’s basically said work the shifts or find alternative employment. Can she do this?
I’ve tried to go to hr but they have told me the best course of action is to come to an agreement between ourselves

Do you have a written contract with your hours on it? If so, then she has to comply with that. If your previous arrangement was more informal then you have less protection. Your HR sound a bit rubbish though - they should at least have a copy of your contract!

You should asked for this to be moved to Employment Matters as lots of knowledgeable people hang out there.

My understanding is that if you’ve worked the same hours for the last 4 years those are now your contractual hours and they will have to go through a consultation process to change them.

Your flexible working request resulted in a permanent change to your hours, so no your new manager cannot unilaterally change what is in your contract.

@BlusteryLake

Do you have a written contract with your hours on it? If so, then she has to comply with that. If your previous arrangement was more informal then you have less protection. Your HR sound a bit rubbish though - they should at least have a copy of your contract!

No stupidly it isn’t written into my contract however I’m assuming they still have my request for flexible working on file

I think we need to know a bit more about what your flexible working agreement actually was - and was it made as a temporary thing or permanent?
You've worked the same hours for a while now so possibly can claim that makes a permanent change to your contract - a custom and habit thing.
There's a legal section if you don't get answers here by the way

So flexible working arrangement was for me to work within school hours, partner works away 5 days out of 7 and I have no family members to help with childcare. Some of my work can be done at home however the last time I helped out by working from home whilst the kids were there my youngest fell from the top bunk and had to be taken to hospital. My friend who is a social worker said I need to tread carefully as working whilst looking after young children can be deemed neglect. I’ve tried to explain this however my boss will not budge

My friend who is a social worker said I need to tread carefully as working whilst looking after young children can be deemed neglect

So everyone “neglected” their dc during lockdowns? Totally depends on your job and age of dc. My dh works from home and from 3.30pm daily he has our 3dc here. At 14-10 they’re self sufficient and not neglected

Flexible working can be reviewed but I’d dig out your flexible working request so you can say this was agreed on x date. As you’ve been working those ours that’s your contract through doing (has a proper term).

After 4 years you have likely got a case for custom and practice and these being your contractual hours.

Your HR is shit because if you left because of what your manager said it could be considered constructive dismissal.

Do you have these conversations in writing? If not email now to state you have a flexible working agreement that has been in place for 4 years.

If you wanted to be charitable you could suggest an alteration to your schedule that means you can do an early or late x times a month to fit with when your partner is home. You don't have to do this though and it should be recorded as a new flexible working request.

@NeedAHoliday2021

My friend who is a social worker said I need to tread carefully as working whilst looking after young children can be deemed neglect

So everyone “neglected” their dc during lockdowns? Totally depends on your job and age of dc. My dh works from home and from 3.30pm daily he has our 3dc here. At 14-10 they’re self sufficient and not neglected

Flexible working can be reviewed but I’d dig out your flexible working request so you can say this was agreed on x date. As you’ve been working those ours that’s your contract through doing (has a proper term).

So yes what friend explained it as if dc was to fall and break their arm and then I explained I was working from home (unable to supervise as zoom meetings etc) they might deem that as neglect

Look for any documents, emails etc you have about the change to your working hours. Speak to your union rep. HR's response to you was not good enough really, except as something to try first!

Did you submit a formal working request, and did they approve it and amend your contract? Also your social worker friend...well let's not go there.

@Isntisironic1

So flexible working arrangement was for me to work within school hours, partner works away 5 days out of 7 and I have no family members to help with childcare. Some of my work can be done at home however the last time I helped out by working from home whilst the kids were there my youngest fell from the top bunk and had to be taken to hospital. My friend who is a social worker said I need to tread carefully as working whilst looking after young children can be deemed neglect. I’ve tried to explain this however my boss will not budge

All this is irrelevant though, it’s not your managers job to accommodate your partners hours.

All that matters is what was on then flexible request.

I'd try to focus on the existing flexible working request which was authorised years ago. Find a copy if at all possible, or go back to HR who will have it on file, together with any paperwork signing off the agreement.

Don't bring your childcare difficulties into the conversation, because to be frank that's not your managers problem. And irrelevant (to your employer). That's not to say I'm unsympathetic or lacking in understanding, it's just the harsh reality of employment. Other team members may also have mitigating reasons not to work the undesirable shifts. Your strongest argument is the existing flexible working request.

What was the relevance of your partners salary so keep scrolling looking for where it comes into it

If you have been given the same hours for a certain period of time , regardless of contract , you might still have a case . It’s called (something along the lines) of an assumed contract but goodness knows if I have that terminal right.

*Terminology

So flexible working arrangement was for me to work within school hours, partner works away 5 days out of 7 and I have no family members to help with childcare.

Is there any reason why you can't use paid childcare (like millions of other people)? I think as children reach school age, because schools have a statutory obligation to consider provision of wraparound, there is a perception that childcare should no longer be a barrier to full time work.

Make sure all correspondences regarding this are in writing. Email your manager and cc hr regarding the fact that your current working agreement has been in place for x amount of time, find information on custom and practice, and send it to them telling them that you believe this now applies to you.

@OfstedOffred

Most lates and earlies type shifts don't fit into wraparound childcare either...

@OfstedOffred

So flexible working arrangement was for me to work within school hours, partner works away 5 days out of 7 and I have no family members to help with childcare.

Is there any reason why you can't use paid childcare (like millions of other people)? I think as children reach school age, because schools have a statutory obligation to consider provision of wraparound, there is a perception that childcare should no longer be a barrier to full time work.

Well to give you an example a childminder in my area would cost £15+ an hour I earn just under this so does not make economical sense. I would be paying someone for me to work

@LikeALeadBalloon

What was the relevance of your partners salary so keep scrolling looking for where it comes into it

Because she’s said on numerous occasions oh your partner should pick up the childcare on the days you work. If we were to do that we wouldn’t be able to pay our mortgage

I earn less than £15 an hour, if I have to pay for before or after school care for both children then it does cost more than my hourly rate BUT I still earn more than I've spent because I'm not paying for a full days childcare.
How do you manage holiday care for your children if you have no one to help and are unwilling to pay?

We’ve looked into it it wouldn’t work out for me that’s why I’ve always worked school hours. Both my sisters are teachers so help out in the holidays

If the first hour you work is just covering childcare, then the other hours on that shift are profit. Many working parents have the lowest earning just covering childcare costs for the first hour of the day. You probably have colleagues paying out for childcare who find your stance odd.

However, if you have worked the same hours for 4 years you go back to HR and point out these are your hours. If your manager needs to change them, this will need a discussion and more than a couple of weeks notice.

£15 p/hr for a childminder?!