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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Working school hours?

56 replies

Isntisironic1 · 10/02/2022 17:26

I currently work part time, not badly paid but my partner who is self employed earns 5x what I earn. I have been employed my the same company for over 10 years. Since having my youngest (and my partner going self employed) I put in a request for flexible working which was accepted. For the past 4 years I’ve worked school hours and there’s never been a problem however we got a new manager a couple of months ago who keeps trying to rota me onto lates/earlies etc after I’ve already explained that I am unable to do these hours. She did it again yesterday for next months rota so I again mentioned that I would be unable to work the shifts due to lack of childcare etc and she’s basically said work the shifts or find alternative employment. Can she do this?
I’ve tried to go to hr but they have told me the best course of action is to come to an agreement between ourselves

OP posts:
OfstedOffred · 10/02/2022 18:31

I dont understand. If your children are all school aged (you want to work school hours) there are a good 5 hours a day where you can work with no childcare cost at all. For you to not be up financially due to childcare cost of wraparound care you have to have about 6 kids. And where are you that a childminder costs 15 per hour per child? Or do you mean for 2/3 kids?

ginnybag · 10/02/2022 18:34

After 4 years with no break, you have a custom and practice entitlement.

Seconding your HR being crap. Your manager's statement could be classed as constructive dismissal, with a healthy dose of potential sexual discrimination to boot.

Send your manager a very cool, factual email that states: I placed a flexible working request on x date, y years ago. This was accepted and my hours were changed to a, b,c on z date. I have worked those hours ever since and they are my permanent hours now. I am unable and do not wish to change these. I have reminded you of these hours for the last d months, but you continue to roster me outside of my hours.

Please only roster me within my agreed hours moving forward, as I cannot work outside them and I have no intention of following your instruction that I should 'quote her here'.

Copy it to yourself and to HR.

Loopytiles · 10/02/2022 18:34

Argue in writing that your contractual arrangement is established as X hours (your approved request and ‘custom and practice’, that there was insufficient discussion of or notice for the change and that this is detrimental to you.

If your employer won’t budge would sort childcare and work the longer hours. If you’re not married it’s important to retain your earning ability, especially since your DP is self employed so could easily pay only minimal child maintenance in the event of breaking up.

cherish123 · 10/02/2022 18:35

Check contract.
Call ACAS and or a union, if you are in one.

NeesAndToes · 10/02/2022 18:39

@OfstedOffred

So flexible working arrangement was for me to work within school hours, partner works away 5 days out of 7 and I have no family members to help with childcare.

Is there any reason why you can't use paid childcare (like millions of other people)? I think as children reach school age, because schools have a statutory obligation to consider provision of wraparound, there is a perception that childcare should no longer be a barrier to full time work.

Doesn't matter OPs flexible working agreement was accepted. So wind your neck in.
Blueroses99 · 10/02/2022 18:39

It’s not a childcare issue and you shouldn’t respond to your managers suggestions on childcare. If a flexible working request is accepted, it’s a change to your contractual working hours. The work that you do needs to be within these hours. Keep pointing out that you have been rostered outside your working hours. Your manager cannot ignore a flexible working request that has been in place for years because it is not convenient to her.

Soontobe60 · 10/02/2022 18:40

@Isntisironic1

We’ve looked into it it wouldn’t work out for me that’s why I’ve always worked school hours. Both my sisters are teachers so help out in the holidays
So, you earn just under £15 an hour, and your dh earns 5x that, so around £75 an hour. On a 40 hour week, that’s a weekly salary of £3000. I assume the kids are his too? Pay the childminder out of his income!!
NeesAndToes · 10/02/2022 18:40

When my flexible working request was accepted I got a letter confirming this was a permanent change to my contract. Did you get anything similar?

ZoChan · 10/02/2022 18:44

@ginnybag

After 4 years with no break, you have a custom and practice entitlement.

Seconding your HR being crap. Your manager's statement could be classed as constructive dismissal, with a healthy dose of potential sexual discrimination to boot.

Send your manager a very cool, factual email that states: I placed a flexible working request on x date, y years ago. This was accepted and my hours were changed to a, b,c on z date. I have worked those hours ever since and they are my permanent hours now. I am unable and do not wish to change these. I have reminded you of these hours for the last d months, but you continue to roster me outside of my hours.

Please only roster me within my agreed hours moving forward, as I cannot work outside them and I have no intention of following your instruction that I should 'quote her here'.

Copy it to yourself and to HR.

This!!
BuanoKubiamVej · 10/02/2022 18:45

It doesn't matter that there isn't a written contract. The legal term is that your set hours have been established by "custom and practice" by being the same overctte past 4 years, so the effect is the same as if you did have a contract stating that was your hours.

That said, employers can change contractual terms. They have to consult you but they can over ruke your wishes - they then have to give you plenty of notice and pay you redundancy pay if no agreement is possible.

Stand your ground and know your rights. Hr is not on your side. Their job is to stop the company from being sued. Either by stopping your manager from acting illegally or by confusing you into giving up your rights.

Original poster
Isntisironic1 · 10/02/2022 18:47

@Soontobe60 unfortunately my partner would rather I give up my career and be a stay at home mum which is something I don’t want to do, he will therefor not help with childcare costs

OP posts:
OfstedOffred · 10/02/2022 18:55

my partner would rather I give up my career and be a stay at home mum which is something I don’t want to do, he will therefor not help with childcare costs

This right here is the bigger problem

girlmom21 · 10/02/2022 18:55

Ask HR for a copy of your contract.
Do you have a written confirmation of the approval of your flexible working request?

Twizbe · 10/02/2022 18:57

[quote Isntisironic1]@Soontobe60 unfortunately my partner would rather I give up my career and be a stay at home mum which is something I don’t want to do, he will therefor not help with childcare costs[/quote]
That's a much bigger issue right there.

SusieSusieSoo · 10/02/2022 18:58

Hi op even if it's not written down you've been working those hours for years. Those are legally your hours - they have been incorporated by custom & practice. You need to challenge this. Makes no difference if not written down x

DragonMovie · 10/02/2022 18:58

@Isntisironic1

I find some peoples responses to you on here shameful. You don’t have to justify your choices - you found an arrangement that suits you and your family and is good for your finances, your workplace agreed and now they’re being unfair.

Are the other posters jealous that you came up with an arrangement they didn’t think of?? I literally cannot understand the motive for people questioning your childcare arrangements… It doesn’t matter what “millions of others” pay for/do with their kids - it’s simply not the matter at hand!!

Canaloha · 10/02/2022 18:58

[quote Isntisironic1]@Soontobe60 unfortunately my partner would rather I give up my career and be a stay at home mum which is something I don’t want to do, he will therefor not help with childcare costs[/quote]
That's the issue then isn't it, he sounds charming.

NettleTea · 10/02/2022 19:00

[quote Isntisironic1]@Soontobe60 unfortunately my partner would rather I give up my career and be a stay at home mum which is something I don’t want to do, he will therefor not help with childcare costs[/quote]
with this in mind it is ABSOLUTELY imperative that you keep your job. I cannot believe, on his wage, that he wont help with childcare fees. FFS.

Soontobe60 · 10/02/2022 19:00

[quote Isntisironic1]@Soontobe60 unfortunately my partner would rather I give up my career and be a stay at home mum which is something I don’t want to do, he will therefor not help with childcare costs[/quote]
In that case your partner is an arse! You’re not his live in nanny. I’m assuming that you don’t have access to his money?

The question you should ask yourself is, do I want to work more and earn more of my own money, or am I happy with working part time so that I don’t have to pay for child care?
Do you pay your sister in the school holidays, and if so, does she know how much money he earns?

KindergartenKop · 10/02/2022 19:02

If you divorce DH then you can split childcare 50/50 and work the days you don't have the kids.

Canaloha · 10/02/2022 19:02

Also I know it's boring but if they're a partner and you're not married then I would insist on doing more hours.

NettleTea · 10/02/2022 19:03

also, be aware that while you are only working part time, in order to do all the childcare, your partner is shoring up his pension at your expense.

girlmom21 · 10/02/2022 19:04

Stop derailing the thread. His refusal to pay childcare isn't the bigger issue. It's a completely separate issue.

The company agreed 4 years ago she could work specific hours which they're now refusing to do. That's the issue in question. She shouldn't have to work any other hours, regardless of what her partner does or doesn't do.

NettleTea · 10/02/2022 19:06

It IS the bigger issue because OP doesnt seem to realise how vulnerable she is, as with far too many women on this board at the moment.

OP I hope you are on the mortgage / deeds.

I hope he has made a will that you are named in