Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

£60 school fine for absence even if documented abuse?

99 replies

Hadharra · 10/02/2022 16:45

Just out of curiosity. My son is only 3 but his father doesn't see him and only has indirect contact (court ordered). If my son were to be in school, I take him out for a two week holiday, would my ex partner (son's dad) also get a £60 fine if one were issued? Or could I offer to pay it myself? This kind of shit terrifies me!

OP posts:

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 11/02/2022 09:53

Interesting to know the answers as I assumed my kids’ dad and I would get fined in this scenario- he is not absent (just a PITA) so may be different.

I’m not keen on taking kids out of school in term time though. Especially for two whole weeks. They do miss a lot even at 5.

Original poster

Hadharra · 11/02/2022 09:54

I don't understand why so many people are so bothered about a child that's not theirs going away for two weeks to improve their second language and see family. How does it affect you? How does it change your life? Are you this invested in challenging actual child abuse and neglect? Are you honestly not able to see how this is so important, and how it's not just 'for convenience' when someone is on a low income and cannot physically afford to go at any other time? Are people really that bound by 'rules' and not able to open their minds further than that? This thread has been eye opening to me re what people see as important and not. Baffling. The UK is a strange, strange place sometimes...

OP posts:

Mummyoflittledragon · 11/02/2022 09:54

@CocoCookieCream
We also have family abroad. We didn’t take dd out of school to see family. But that’s because I’m chronically ill so it would be totally counterproductive to have her out of school term time when I struggle massively with holidays and use the day to rest.

Were I well, we may have taken her out. Trips abroad to family can be hugely educational, especially if it involves another language. If a parent can argue and illustrate the educational value of said trip, the child would therefore continue to be educated and could argue against said fine.

My dd is now in private school. One child went skiing at Christmas and returned a couple of weeks late. Another is educated for a few months abroad every year attending various temporary boarding school groups (eg skiing) abroad then returns the school.

It’s a different world and no parent is getting het up about their child missing a bit of education. I imagine they’re engaged and do the necessary so the children catch up, as would be the case with plenty of parents taking their children to see family abroad.

Mummyoflittledragon · 11/02/2022 09:56

@CocoCookieCream
I meant to add, dh’s family doesn’t come here. So if he / we want to see them, we have to travel. You cannot presume every family is the same as yours.

busyeatingbiscuits · 11/02/2022 09:59

I always took my children out once a year in primary and they did nothing educational or language-enriching

I never got a fine either - often fines don't kick in until you have had 5 days off so we would just pick them up early on a Monday afternoon and go.

FirstAconite · 11/02/2022 10:00

Ignore the judgemental comments OP, especially the really nasty one from @toomuchlaundry.

I've been in your shoes, it's hard work raising a child with an abusive ex isn't it - however little contact they have, they're still a looming presence. Travel is enriching for children, and will add to their education, especially if they're conversing in another language with native speakers. My DC ended up working in NY because I'd taken them there on a term time holiday and it made such an impact on them.

DebbieHarrysCheekbones · 11/02/2022 10:00

If he’s only got indirect court ordered contact im also assuming you have a weighty CAO behind you
Surely as the sole resident parent you have something in the order which covers this but in any event I believe the resident parent can take the child (ren) away and on holiday up to a certain number of days without needing nrp permission?

HelloCanYouHearMe · 11/02/2022 10:04

@toomuchlaundry

Seems a shame you did all those qualifications and you are on a low income

Fucking hell @toomuchlaundry

Did you get out of the wrong side of bed this morning?

Original poster

Hadharra · 11/02/2022 10:21

@DebbieHarrysCheekbones

If he’s only got indirect court ordered contact im also assuming you have a weighty CAO behind you Surely as the sole resident parent you have something in the order which covers this but in any event I believe the resident parent can take the child (ren) away and on holiday up to a certain number of days without needing nrp permission?

Yes we have a CAO (though no final order yet!)

OP posts:

cherrysthename · 11/02/2022 10:56

Just chiming in to add extra reassurance that you have nothing to worry about. Ignore the unpleasant posters. Imagine having to live in their heads- such a shame for them.

FairyLightQueen · 11/02/2022 11:01

@toomuchlaundry

Seems a shame you did all those qualifications and you are on a low income

Jesus that's low.

JuergenSchwarzwald · 11/02/2022 11:05

Taking a 5 year old out of school for a couple of weeks to see his family and experience a different culture is going to be extremely beneficial to his upbringing, his identity and his language skills

you can do that in the 13 weeks' holiday that your child gets anyway. I can't see why you would have to take him out of school unless you have a job which is inflexible about when you can take leave. In which case the school head should be flexible anyway (they say they can't approve leave but they still can).

JuergenSchwarzwald · 11/02/2022 11:06

My DC ended up working in NY because I'd taken them there on a term time holiday and it made such an impact on them

no doubt it would have made an equal impact if you had taken them in the summer holidays, too.

FairyLightQueen · 11/02/2022 11:06

OP it'll be fine, he won't be notified thank goodness.

Don't know why everyone is being so negative about it. I was regularly taken out of school to travel. I left school at 15 to travel for a year and basically educate myself. I have two undergraduate degrees (one in childhood development!), a masters, and a successful career.

I hope to raise children who think for themselves, and examine the rules of society and decide if they are just or overtly-controlling. And then I hope they will act accordingly and be their own person. I certainly wouldn't want them to blindly follow all rules.

sparepantsandtoothbrush · 11/02/2022 11:07

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

Interesting to know the answers as I assumed my kids’ dad and I would get fined in this scenario- he is not absent (just a PITA) so may be different.

I’m not keen on taking kids out of school in term time though. Especially for two whole weeks. They do miss a lot even at 5.

I'm not sure about primary but a friend got fined for taking her teens out for a week at the end of the school year. Their dad also got fined (although my friend paid his fine too as it was her who'd taken them out)

And while I think it's crap that the UK doesn't allow us to take our own children out of school during term time, once they're older it's a pain in the ass for the teachers if the kids come back half way through a topic and have no idea what they're doing.

CocoCookieCream · 11/02/2022 11:07

Lol, everyone trying to justify their rule breaking...

If you can't afford a foreign holiday outside school term, then you shouldn't go on one.

TheOriginalEmu · 11/02/2022 11:19

@CocoCookieCream

Lol, everyone trying to justify their rule breaking...

If you can't afford a foreign holiday outside school term, then you shouldn't go on one.

Oooh rule-breaking. What terrible people we are.

Get over yourself

Goawayangryman · 11/02/2022 11:31

Okay sorry, I was answering the question originally posed but I see now it was intended as hypothetical.
Is there a court order limiting contact or his exercise of PR in some way?

CocoCookieCream · 11/02/2022 11:33

@TheOriginalEmu

Haha, you probably wouldn't be surprised to know that I work in a Compliance function. Lol. Probably ideally suited to it, I guess.

Original poster

Hadharra · 11/02/2022 11:36

[quote CocoCookieCream]@TheOriginalEmu

Haha, you probably wouldn't be surprised to know that I work in a Compliance function. Lol. Probably ideally suited to it, I guess.[/quote]
Explains a lot.

OP posts:

YouBelongHere · 11/02/2022 11:53

As others have said if you don't give the school his contact details then they can't be included on any referral. If you are worried you can always speak to them and explain the situation, they will priortise safeguarding over any referral.

If your plan is to take your child out at around the same time every year then I would be aware that our LA wouldn't just send a fine every year and allow you to pay it off, they would eventually take further action as the fine is meant to discourage parents taking their child out of school. You can always ring them to check their policy though as it differs depending on which LA you're in - you don't need to give them any personal details about your child or the school they attend, they should be able to give you general advice.

Goawayangryman · 11/02/2022 12:20

I think actually you need to ask your sol for advice about this and related issues, for example, taking child overseas, making decisions, how schools should exercise their legal duties, etc - particularly if, as it sounds likely, you have an interim CAO and have had CAFCASS involvement.

whatkatydid2013 · 11/02/2022 12:28

@CocoCookieCream

Lol, everyone trying to justify their rule breaking...

If you can't afford a foreign holiday outside school term, then you shouldn't go on one.

Can you afford to go in the holidays? Just seems at my kids school the people who are snotty about other people taking their kids out usually can so it’s awfully easy for them to say or they have some nice option for cheap U.K. holidays like extended family owning a second home somewhere or similar. I get it’s better not to take them out if you can avoid it but if it’s that or no holiday I totally understand people doing it. We can take them anytime so we tend to go for the school holidays but I can envisage situations I might choose take them out in the future.

unicornsarereal72 · 11/02/2022 12:31

We had family in Spain when the children were younger. We use to travel a few days before half term. And return in half term. But you could do a few days either side of a school holiday to minimise the disruption.

DebbieHarrysCheekbones · 11/02/2022 14:51

@Hadharra

What do you mean you have a CAO but no final order yet?
A CAO is drawn up at the finality of proceedings not part way through. Is no direct contact due to police or a services activity?
Even if you had a pre existing one before this set of proceedings often they are put on hold or suspended pending the final directions hearing and subsequent (if any) orders

Flip

1 2 3 4