To feel so negatively towards men?

[MerryMarigold]

I've not been abused. I have great relationship with my Dad, but...
... More and more frequently I find myself feeling so angry with men and thinking that in most of the marriages I know the women bring much more to the table and are frankly, nicer people. Out of so many marriages I think the men's faults (all different but all equally bad) outweigh the women's. I can count on one hand the number of marriages I would consider 'equal' where they both equally do good things and bad things (I would include my parents in this). For example: My Dad growing up was not very hands on, but he is extremely kind, warm, patient and generous. He loves underdogs and is very positive and encouraging about others. He can lose his temper at times and went through a nervous breakdown. My mum was a great parent who spent a lot of time with us doing all sorts of interesting things. She takes care of my Dad well and has stuck by him in some hard times. She can be critical but she's very loyal and hard working. She's emotional but tends to hold her emotions in.

I'd say my own marriage is fairly equal but I get upset at my sister or friends where I see it as very unequal. AIBU to feel this way or do others feel like this?

@MerryMarigold

I want to be fair to men, but the older I get, the more I see… yes, I have to actively remember NAMALT as my negativity towards their gender grows.

Perhaps it's an age thing. I'm 48.

Oh this entirely! I remember years ago having a conversation with my very nice older neighbour and she finished her story with ‘anyway, that’s just how it is - women are nicer than men’. I said ‘d’ya think?’ and being slightly horrified. Thought, god she’s a secret man-hater. The older I get it’s like the scales have lifted and I know exactly what she means even though I’ve got some good men in my life. And no, it’s not all men, and of course, some women are cows but I’m talking very generally. More men put themselves and their needs first and more women put others first.

Totally. TBH anyone who seriously disagrees with this has their head in the sand.

Women are brighter, harder working, more resilient, kinder, more able to multitask, more resourceful, more insightful, better at listening more easily adaptable. I could go on and on and on. With every couple I know I think the woman is vastly superior to the man in almost every way, tangible and intangible. It used to be that the men were the breadwinners and that basically saved them and gave them a purpose and the women did everything else. Now the woman is increasingly likely to be the breadwinner too and still do everything else while the man operates on about a quarter of her power.

I look at my own boyfriend who I love to bits and he's probably the best I've ever had but I know he's far less intelligent, has far less stamina and is far less capable of doing things than I am. And he'll never outearn me or be able to provide for me so I don't even think about that.

I wouldn't want to be without men altogether, I like them and enjoy their company and they do serve a purpose in terms of the continuation of the species, sex and companionship but other than that we are far far superior to them. If that sounds like misandry maybe it is. I've spent most of my life having to work four times as hard as them to be taken half as seriously and now I look back and think "what was the fuss about?"

@thepeopleversuswork

Totally. TBH anyone who seriously disagrees with this has their head in the sand.

Women are brighter, harder working, more resilient, kinder, more able to multitask, more resourceful, more insightful, better at listening more easily adaptable. I could go on and on and on. With every couple I know I think the woman is vastly superior to the man in almost every way, tangible and intangible. It used to be that the men were the breadwinners and that basically saved them and gave them a purpose and the women did everything else. Now the woman is increasingly likely to be the breadwinner too and still do everything else while the man operates on about a quarter of her power.

I look at my own boyfriend who I love to bits and he's probably the best I've ever had but I know he's far less intelligent, has far less stamina and is far less capable of doing things than I am. And he'll never outearn me or be able to provide for me so I don't even think about that.

I wouldn't want to be without men altogether, I like them and enjoy their company and they do serve a purpose in terms of the continuation of the species, sex and companionship but other than that we are far far superior to them. If that sounds like misandry maybe it is. I've spent most of my life having to work four times as hard as them to be taken half as seriously and now I look back and think "what was the fuss about?"

I hope you don't ever have sons ,God help them

I hope you don't ever have sons ,God help them

I always find that remark so weird. I know it is intended as a defence of boys, but it really reads like they just are born that irredeemably shit and will never be able to be better, so you really ought to indulge their rubbish rather than expect them to raise their game and grow up like girls will grow up.

@PleasantBirthday

I hope you don't ever have sons ,God help them

I always find that remark so weird. I know it is intended as a defence of boys, but it really reads like they just are born that irredeemably shit and will never be able to be better, so you really ought to indulge their rubbish rather than expect them to raise their game and grow up like girls will grow up.

it was in response to the poster who feels women are superior un every way to men ,so god help any sons she may have as she feels they are second class citizens

@x2boys

I hope you don't ever have sons ,God help them

Indeed, God spare the poor defenseless men.

I won't have sons (too old plus happy with my daughter). You can rest assured that the egos of your precious offspring never need come into contact with women who know they don't need to pander to that nonsense.

it was in response to the poster who feels women are superior un every way to men ,so god help any sons she may have as she feels they are second class citizens

Yes, that was the conversation. However, I don't think the OP is saying that men are organically useless, but they are enabled by society to not take enough responsibility for themselves and their families. Saying that you hope she doesn't have sons says that there is no better way for men to be, that they're a lost cause and cannot improve, which is far more damning. Like saying "awww, look at him though with his confused little face, how could he know the dinner needed to be cooked, poor little manny! He can't help it so you should be nice to him!".

[quote thepeopleversuswork]@x2boys

I hope you don't ever have sons ,God help them

Indeed, God spare the poor defenseless men.

I won't have sons (too old plus happy with my daughter). You can rest assured that the egos of your precious offspring never need come into contact with women who know they don't need to pander to that nonsense.[/quote]
Your the one talking nonsense and making huge generalisations about 50% of the population,I think you might find others don't think you are as perfect as YOU think you are .

@PleasantBirthday

it was in response to the poster who feels women are superior un every way to men ,so god help any sons she may have as she feels they are second class citizens

Yes, that was the conversation. However, I don't think the OP is saying that men are organically useless, but they are enabled by society to not take enough responsibility for themselves and their families. Saying that you hope she doesn't have sons says that there is no better way for men to be, that they're a lost cause and cannot improve, which is far more damning. Like saying "awww, look at him though with his confused little face, how could he know the dinner needed to be cooked, poor little manny! He can't help it so you should be nice to him!".

No that's what ,you are saying ,I'm not saying that If you want to make a point make one but don't twist what I'm saying to make one and making things up about what I have wrote

Concentrate on your own marriage

YANBU. I've had no good male role models growing up. My own father was absent. I gained a stepfather in my teens who was horrible to me and I left home at 17. I got married very young because I desperately wanted a "perfect" relationship as I'd never had one modelled to me but when DS came along my ex husband expected me to do all the childcare. I still do most of it since we divorced.

I'm convinced that the amount of really decent men out there is very small. I work with mainly men and most of them are misogynistic in some way or another.

I don't want a relationship ever again as I'm just sick of men in general. I'm just trying to raise my DS as best as I can so he does end up a good man!

@burnthur5t

Concentrate on your own marriage

True!

@x2boys

I'm sure no one thinks I'm perfect and I have never claimed to be. I am by definition making generalisations, this is a chat board, not a clinical trial with empirical results.

I can only speak to what I see in every day life which is that the vast majority of women I know are far more competent in every way than the vast majority of men.

I don't think there is anything innately or biologically superior about women, but men have been given every social privilege for millennia and they have become rather too comfortable with this privilege and have stopped pushing themselves.

Women have had to work very hard to establish themselves and to compete as equals and by and large they've done such a good job of this that increasingly a lot of men find themselves a bit bewildered and unable to keep up with it all.

This isn't empirical, its just my opinion, obviously. But I stand by it.

Men, they aren’t sending their best.

I’m older, and I am feeling this way too. In mumsnet, the real world and on the news - men seem to be the ones mainly causing problems for everyone else. Of course NAMALT.

We are closely related to chimpanzees, and their society hinges on the fact that the alpha males rules the group mostly based on brute strength.

Perhaps we forget we are the product of hundreds of thousands of years of evolution versus just a century or so of changes in society seeking more equality.

You may think I’m spouting utter balderdash, but this is just the way I’m thinking.

I’m not letting anyone off the hook. Perhaps one day we get there, but it will always be an uphill struggle for men.

Sorry but I agree with peopleversus. I think being given unquestioning priority is bad for people and for millennia men have been seen as “better” which has done them no favours developmentally.

Have an amazing dad and Dh so am speaking generally. Dh always prefers mixed socialising he finds talking to the women in a couple way more interesting and fun than his all male evenings. Actually when I met a group of his university friends for the first time who were really nice interesting women I would have been friends with I knew he was the one for me!

YANBU. But tbh it's mostly MN that makes me feel that way, not men I know irl. The relationships board and the feminist board have made me realise how awful an alarming number of men are. And it's made me realise that there are probably men I know and like who are arseholes in other contexts I'm unaware of.

@MsTSwift

Exactly. It's the developmental stunt that I'm talking about, as opposed to something inherent in men. Privilege breeds inertia, mediocrity, lack of curiosity, entitlement and an inability to look at the world through someone else's eyes. These are all qualities which are fatal to survival and self-improvement.

NAM etc etc. At their best, they are fabulous, maybe the best are nearly as good as us. But so few of them are their best.

But again this is Mumsnet only people who have problems in their relationship ,s are going to post ,those who dont ,won't it' gives a very skewed view of real life and also a very one sided view.

@Stompythedinosaur

Usually women get the partners they deserve. If a woman puts up with an uneven relationship that's her fault and also her right.

I think this isn't really true. Women are raised in a sexist society with uneven relationships being modelled, so they are often socialised to accept this.

It is like how women who grow up in families where there is domestic violence are more likely to accept relationships which include domestic violence. Blaming women for their oppression is unfair.

Amen to this. My mother has ended up in two explotative relationships in succession because she assumes the best of people, she is loyal to a fault, and she, like practically all women in her generation (and many, many younger ones) was socialised into taking care of others.

She did not therefore 'deserve' to be exploited, stompy. The problem is indeed men - men being socialised into thinking it's OK for them to dump menial household work on women.

Enough already with the victim blaming.

@x2boys

But again this is Mumsnet only people who have problems in their relationship ,s are going to post ,those who dont ,won't it' gives a very skewed view of real life and also a very one sided view.

But its not just about having problems in your relationship. It's a structural problem across all walks of life.

Work, for example. The whole infrastructure of work is set up is designed to benefit men who have spouses at home and takes no account of childcare needs etc. This has needlessly held women back at work for decades. It has started to change but there are still a lot of daft rules about presenteeism which serve no purpose at all and far easier to adhere to by men than women.

Also pay. Still a big earnings gap between men and women, for no practical reason whatsoever.

Women do a far far larger proportion of domestic and childcare work, even in scenarios where they are the breadwinner. For absolutely no reason whatsoever other than most men had a women picking up after them when they were a kid and can't think beyond that.

Still, with all these structural limitations, women have made huge strides and have overcome a lot of these hurdles.

Yes I’ve pretty much always felt like this.

Women are always the ones being pushed around, looked down on and generally fucked around. Truly, no one gives a shit about us.

Most men believe that women are inferior to them and they prove this through their behaviour and beliefs. Even the ‘feminist’ men just regurgitate any current feminist theory even if it isn’t pro-woman (e.g SWIW) without really giving a shit or having a deeper understanding.

Totally agree and their problem masculinity extends to everything else too eg Ukraine. All the parading and building up weapons putting the whole world at stake because they are worried as being seen to be small weak men (that applies to every side of the conflict).

There's a reason traditionally 'male' jobs tend to be paid more and it's not because men work harder.

Men are way more likely to commute further, work longer base hours, take on overtime, take less holidays, take fewer sick days, work in more dangerous jobs, more willing to relocate for a job, more likely to study a STEM subject, more likely to pick careers/jobs in industries that pay more rather then what actually interests them. But patriarchy.

I don' t feel this way, l refuse to alienate myself against half the population. If your at war with others you won' t ever find peace. Focus on your own life, wellbeing, happiness, healthy choices etc, life will be alot easier.

@Moonface123

I don' t feel this way, l refuse to alienate myself against half the population. If your at war with others you won' t ever find peace. Focus on your own life, wellbeing, happiness, healthy choices etc, life will be alot easier.

No one is asking you to be at war with them or to be alienated from them. I'm certainly not. I love them to bits. And they have very little impact on my life other than the ones I choose to interact with out of my own free will. I've deliberately set my life up in such a way that I don't know to be dependent on one, thank God. I'm not dependent on one financially and I work (mainly) for women.

It's just about acknowledging that the privilege to which they have been entitled for thousands of years has ultimately done both them and us a disservice. It's made them more selfish, less able to restrain their worst impulses, less resourceful and less organised. It's made us dependent, though thankfully we are becoming less so.

It's not about hating men, its about hating patriarchy.