To feel so negatively towards men?

[MerryMarigold]

I've not been abused. I have great relationship with my Dad, but...
... More and more frequently I find myself feeling so angry with men and thinking that in most of the marriages I know the women bring much more to the table and are frankly, nicer people. Out of so many marriages I think the men's faults (all different but all equally bad) outweigh the women's. I can count on one hand the number of marriages I would consider 'equal' where they both equally do good things and bad things (I would include my parents in this). For example: My Dad growing up was not very hands on, but he is extremely kind, warm, patient and generous. He loves underdogs and is very positive and encouraging about others. He can lose his temper at times and went through a nervous breakdown. My mum was a great parent who spent a lot of time with us doing all sorts of interesting things. She takes care of my Dad well and has stuck by him in some hard times. She can be critical but she's very loyal and hard working. She's emotional but tends to hold her emotions in.

I'd say my own marriage is fairly equal but I get upset at my sister or friends where I see it as very unequal. AIBU to feel this way or do others feel like this?

I generally don't think any of my friend's partners (both male and female) are good enough for them but to be honest it might be because I mostly hear about the negative incidents!

I think that when the point comes where somebody's got to do it, women, more often than men, decide that that somebody has got to be them.
I think this is very true. I know a lot of men who have just walked away from their responsibilities. If their ex-wives had behaved in the same way then the children would have had to go into care. Women rarely do this. It is a lot more socially-acceptable for men not to make an effort socially too. I read some shocking statistic the other day that women are far more likely to have their husbands leave them if they become seriously ill than vice versa. I don't think men are inherently worse than women - far from it. But I do think that society expects a lot more from women.

@RedCandyApple

If this is the case then why are women almost always the ones pushing for marriage? If men get so much more out of it, most men are not fussed whether they get married or not.

Women are also instigating divorce more than men, which I would say indicates that this really is the case. The women often realise too late (once there are kids involved), that they have really got the short end of the stick, whereas the men are perplexed why their wives wants to leave when on the surface they have "everything". I don't think most men even realise themselves how little they contribute to family life. Need to say though, this is all very generalised, as there are women who don't pull their weight too, and there are some amazing husbands and fathers out there.

YANBU.

I’m (mostly) happy in my marriage. I only have sons and while I worry, say, about the impact port might have on them as they get older, I am bringing them up well to be respectful of everyone.

However, when I think generally - and you have to, because when you think individually then of course you feel ok with men in the same bathroom as you (for example) - I see men taking advantage of women at every step and for every single little thing.

This is a huge part of why I stay away from the news, it’s depressing to hear about. Of course NAMALT but as I say, almost at the species level, they are.

@RedCandyApple

If this is the case then why are women almost always the ones pushing for marriage? If men get so much more out of it, most men are not fussed whether they get married or not.

Because, is a patriarchal society, women's success and worth is connected to their ability to attract and keep a male partner.

Woman have more to gain from marriage socially (bachelor does not have the same negative connotation as spinster). Also, as the oppressed gender, they require the legal protection more.

@rifling

I think that when the point comes where somebody's got to do it, women, more often than men, decide that that somebody has got to be them. I think this is very true. I know a lot of men who have just walked away from their responsibilities. If their ex-wives had behaved in the same way then the children would have had to go into care. Women rarely do this. It is a lot more socially-acceptable for men not to make an effort socially too. I read some shocking statistic the other day that women are far more likely to have their husbands leave them if they become seriously ill than vice versa. I don't think men are inherently worse than women - far from it. But I do think that society expects a lot more from women.

I agree with this.

Also with this: I don't think most men even realise themselves how little they contribute to family life.

A fair number of men have never met their child's key worker at nursery/teacher at school, wouldn't know how to pack a school bag, don't know what days their child has PE, have no idea what homework needs to be done when, couldn't tell you when World Book Day is (or understand that this usually requires a costume), aren't on the class Whatsapp, don't know who their child's friends are and don't know who their child's doctor or dentist is. If you asked them to organise a child's birthday party, well two things - one, they have to be ASKED in the first place rather than understanding that it is required, and two, they would just look blankly at you.

Women don't enjoy knowing all this shit, they just do as a rule.

I'm sure there are some men who could and do deal with everything on this list, but I know plenty who don't (and who will try to push it onto someone else, usually a woman if they get the chance).

My DSS is 8 yo and talks to me like I'm a piece of litter. It's a fairly new thing.

I've known him since he was a baby and he's always been my special little boy. I'm at my wit's end with his new behaviours.

At his mum's house is a new boyfriend and his own kid. Since he moved in, mum has to ask his permission for everything. She even asked his permission about whether she could change sandwich fillings for her own children's packed lunches. (Denied)
He signs off on whether the cat can go to the vet, whether she can put petrol in the car, even whether the kids are allowed to call my DH "dad". (They are not allowed to. They must call new boyfriend "dad" instead.)

Do I think all men are terrible? No. But I do think that the ones that are are contagious. It's insidious. Bleurgh.

MAMALT. I could give lots of examples of wonderful men.
But I look around at the people I know…

• the friend pulled across the floor by their hair, in front of their screaming 5yo (they left)
• the other friend, back black and blue from a beating (they left)
• yet another friend dealing with confused and upset children because one parent during divorce is constantly bad mouthing the other
• me, beaten black and blue by a sibling
• me as a pre-teen, sexually abused by a grown cousin

I have so many examples. Serious ones. Probably the very worst one was a woman against my male friend. Every other single one? Man against woman.

That’s the stories I know closely. That’s before we get onto the news stories where women only want to go for a jog.

I want to be fair to men, but the older I get, the more I see… yes, I have to actively remember NAMALT as my negativity towards their gender grows.

NAMALT?

Not All Men Are ? ? I don't know this expression

I want to be fair to men, but the older I get, the more I see… yes, I have to actively remember NAMALT as my negativity towards their gender grows.

Perhaps it's an age thing. I'm 48.

I think you may be overly influenced by your sources, your friends confide their troubles and problems created by their male partners.

Do their male partners confide in you ? Do you listen to many men who describe how the troubles and problems female partner cause ? If not - then your sources are all from one side of the divide and will naturally lead you to such a conclusion.

Men are the primary causes of domestic violence. Men can and do abandon their children -- No doubt. This is far from the whole story though, saying NAMALT is easy, but it gives the impression that 90% of ALL men fall under the accused banner. Maybe they are, I do not consider myself an expert.. but consider your sources.

Men have been traditionally socialized to live their adult lives in the public sphere, i.e. working, providing, appearing to be strong, dominant and a protector. Women are traditionally socialized to live their lives in the domestic sphere, looking after the kids and husband, keeping house, assuming care responsibilities etc. this is slowly changing to an extent, i.e. women are now expected to work, and it has now become a necessity in order to afford to keep a roof over the familys’ head, but it doesn’t and hasn’t lessened the domestic duties they are expected to fulfill. More is now expected of a man in the home, but the consequences of sitting on your arse letting the wife do all the housework are far less pronounced than not going out to work in order to avoid homelessness, and not doing the washing up or putting a load of washing on if you don’t fancy it is easy to achieve if you’ve got someone else who’ll step into the breach if you can’t be bothered. At the end of the day people will do what they need to do if it benefits them enough, and there are a lot of men who don’t feel like cleaning the kitchen or vacuuming is important enough, or derives enough benefit to them, especially when they have somebody else who will do it for them if they don’t. In short, women’s roles in society have expanded to include far more that is unavoidable than mens’.

I’m not taking into account the absolute wankers here, of which sadly there are many. For what it’s worth I also think things have now started to go backwards once more. I’m also not making comment on the women who are fucking awful, and there are plenty of those as well.

@MerryMarigold

True Natty. Maybe MN has ruined men for me after what I see on here, and then see similar stuff (albeit slightly less extreme) in RL relationships. Basically selfish, arrogant men getting their own way and leaving their wives to do twice the amount of work they do.

You never truly see what goes on behind closed doors - and what we see on MN is one side of the story. I suspect many relationships are quite like your own - perhaps women have faults, but are just better at hiding their faults in the company of others

I feel the same.

Nearly every woman I know in a relationship/marriage brings far more to the table than the man does. You turn on the TV and you see story after story of men murdering women. Every relationship I have been in has ended up with me being abused in some way. My ex husband his horrifying details of his past life from me until we were married and had children and to this day has never even apologised.

Most men are low value and not worth bothering with.

@PeeAche Your story is heartbreaking. Those poor children.

In a smiling vein I have ZERO time for women who put a man above the happiness and welfare of their children. The thought of even letting a man near my children makes me angry, let alone putting one before their welfare.

Similar vein. Autocorrect is doing a right number on me today!

It doesn't seem like you're giving any credit to that fact that it's men that usually earn more, and it's often them that provide the homes with utilities, food, clothing, activities, holidays etc.

Men have as much value to society as women do.

@LethargicActress

It doesn't seem like you're giving any credit to that fact that it's men that usually earn more, and it's often them that provide the homes with utilities, food, clothing, activities, holidays etc.

Men have as much value to society as women do.

Ah the gender pay gap.... don't get me started on that...

There's a reason traditionally 'male' jobs tend to be paid more and it's not because men work harder.

As a sex class, it’s hard not to view men negatively, imo. However, they can be pretty great on a case by case basis.

My husband is better person than me. No kidding, he's so selfless, generous and patient, he's just a good human being. But it makes me so angry when I look at some men. Not all of them are like this, I have few colleagues who are excellent husbands and fathers, but reading some threads on mumsnet or watching men on social media makes my blood boil.

It does seem totally unreasonable to think that basically your marriage and your parents' marriage are the only equal marriages, but not consider that your perception might be a bit skewed! The way you describe your parents' marriage sounds pretty traditional, but it was okay because your dad is a great person. I don't disagree with you, but I think you might be being unfair to other marriages where the same is true. I can almost guarantee that all these women you think are pretty much flawless are not!

@MerryMarigold

True Natty. Maybe MN has ruined men for me after what I see on here, and then see similar stuff (albeit slightly less extreme) in RL relationships. Basically selfish, arrogant men getting their own way and leaving their wives to do twice the amount of work they do.

On this site you are getting a one-sided story re husbands, partners, in-laws, it's very naive to believe all you read, I'm sure that the other person would tell a different story.

The following post captured exactly what I wanted to say, it's worth repeating on the thread.

I think you may be overly influenced by your sources, your friends confide their troubles and problems created by their male partners.

Do their male partners confide in you ? Do you listen to many men who describe how the troubles and problems female partner cause ? If not - then your sources are all from one side of the divide and will naturally lead you to such a conclusion.

I think you have a fairly skewed view tbh. It basically says 'my family is ok but everyone else is shit'.

It's very easy to see what you are looking for and get your judgement distorted.

I think in all reality, you get a bit of everything. Sadly, it's this attitude that leads to mysandry.