To not like giving my symptoms to work over the phone when calling in sick?

[Velvetchocolate]

Does anyone else hate this or am I being precious?

As it is now permissible to be absent from work for a month without the need to produce a doctor's certificate it is reasonable for an employer to ask for details of illness so they can have an idea whether you are likely to be absent for three days or three weeks.

[quote TheApexOfMyLife]@melj1213 but then people will have a sick note from their GP right?

So there is still no need for anyone to go into lengthy description of their symptoms so someone who isn’t medically trained can decide if they out to be at work or they are actually ill.[/quote]
If it is less than 7 days then fit notes aren't automatically issued and SSP only kicks in on day 4, so if you have a 24 hr bug or a migrane it is better for the company to know they don't have to start doing the admin for a longer absence, equally if it's going to be a longer absence they can get the admin ball rolling ASAP (we have cut off points for payroll every month and if you're sick near that payroll cut off and your absence isn't processed before the cut off then you can end up short in your pay and your absence doesn't get processed until the following month)

And again there is no need for lengthy lists of symptoms but there is a massive gulf between detailing a blow by blow account of your night spent on the loo due to D&V and saying nothing more than "I'm ill".

@Velvetchocolate

Do you think the poster above is not being a grown up because she doesn’t feel comfortable disclosing her miscarriage?

I always wonder why people are so unpleasant on here. Not wanting to relay personal info isn’t linked to maturity or otherwise. For me, I just don’t like discussing health matters on the phone, because it feels like I am justifying why I’m off. ‘I’m ill’ should be enough.

I was answer YOU not 'the poster above' who I don;t think you should be using to have digs at people

I didn't have an issue telling work about any of my 5 miscarriages - I accept miscarriage is a sanative topic and I was not commenting on that

@Velvetchocolate

It also doscourage people to take a sickie too often.

But how, when I could easily make something up?

I probably am being precious but it just annoys me that I’m feeling like shit yet have to make two phones calls before 7am justifying why I’m off!

I agree it's a stupid policy dreamt up by over officious micro-managing twats.

In France you need a doctors note but the doctor is forbidden to tell your employer why you're off and they can't ask.

@ghostyslovesheets I am really sorry about your losses and that must have been awful for you. I still honestly don’t see what is not ‘grown up’ about wanting to keep my medical issues private. And this thread has really been an eye opener - women quizzed about the menopause, mental health problems, justifying yourself - often in the guise of ‘support’ - I think it is awful.

@user1497787065

As it is now permissible to be absent from work for a month without the need to produce a doctor's certificate it is reasonable for an employer to ask for details of illness so they can have an idea whether you are likely to be absent for three days or three weeks.

They can ask how long the person thinks they will be off without asking what the illness is.

This really annoys me. Some workplaces are really terrible for this.
I was working in a hospital when my grandmother died. I called and told my dithering idiot of a boss I wouldn't be in. He relayed my message to the entire team but told them my mother died. So then I started getting text messages about my mothers death. My mother is severely disabled and I was out of my mind with grief already. That was the last thing I needed.

@Velvetchocolate

Seriously, you ask if it’s linked to the menopause?

Absolutely. We have amazing support for women struggling through the menopause and have won awards for it.

Sure you have. Over the phone, in the morning.

Not usually. But it’s part of the ongoing discussion. And given all women will go through it at some point, it’s been very well received.

I agree
Why do they need to know
What benefit is it to them or the work place?
People saying it’s useful for them to know how long you’ll be off- a very obvious alternative is surely them saying ‘how long do you think you’ll be off?’

My workplace is full of gossips, and if I told them what I had the whole office would know by lunch

At my work place you also have to call in every morning 45 mins before your shift and explain why you’re off today,
Hint it’s the same reason as yesterday and I’m going to be off for longer if I cant rest because I have to keep setting my alarm for 6.15 even though I’m up all night sick!

I am all for better support in the workplace for physical and mental health, @WouldIBeATwat

But the morning of absence is not the time to have that conversation. And I’m sorry, but I don’t think for a moment that you don’t see why someone demanding to know your symptoms is intrusive and unwanted.

That pisses me off as well @Fluenty

@Velvetchocolate

I am all for better support in the workplace for physical and mental health, *@WouldIBeATwat*

But the morning of absence is not the time to have that conversation. And I’m sorry, but I don’t think for a moment that you don’t see why someone demanding to know your symptoms is intrusive and unwanted.

You’ve clearly never had to deal with a reportable illness in the workplace.

Try keeping a hospital going during a pandemic and then tell me symptoms aren’t important.

I’m done.

Not everything is about covid, @WouldIBeATwat

If I think I have measles I can say that. But only a doctor can confirm it.

Indeed. But you may think your upset tummy is as a result of something you ate, whereas I may be aware of 6 others with the same symptoms which could indicate a norovirus outbreak or some problem with the canteen. I can’t assess that if all 7 people just say they are “ill”.

But you’re determined not to understand so I suppose decades of actual experience of the other side is null and void. 🤷🏻‍♀️

And you don’t want to mention measles, or spots, do you? You just want to say you’re ill and be left alone.

@WouldIBeATwat, yes, tbh.

Of course there are times when this isn’t appropriate. If an illness is ongoing, serious, related to stress, needs adaptation at work, of course a conversation can be had about it.

Bit this conversation should not be had on the phone first thing in the morning on the first day of sickness.

You have told me in quite stern tones on this thread that this is essential. Work need to know - must know, about an employees mental state, to check they are not suicidal. They also must know (if they are a woman of a certain age) if the illness is related to the menopause. And lastly, if neither of these apply, well, they still must know the finer details because it could be infectious.

I am not yet of an age where most women go through the menopause but when that time comes, and I am finding it very difficult, I can see that an honest chat with my employers, if I feel comfortable, May be beneficial. But this is unlikely to be at 7am on a work day.

And above all else, my employers do not have the right to know my mental state, my disease status or whether I am menopausal or not. In short, it is my business. Not theirs.

and above all else, my employers do not have the right to know my mental state, my disease status or whether I am menopausal or not. In short, it is my business. Not theirs.

I agree - this is a massive overreach - part of the same ridiculous compliance culture where work (thankfully not the current one) wanted to see my driving licence, insurance and MOT. They cited a possible liability on behalf of the company if someone had been driving without the correct paperwork (NB this was not a company car). No such case has ever been brought in the UK - nor is one ever likely, it's just compliance wonks poking their noses into stuff to make busy work for themselves.

@WouldIBeATwat

Indeed. But you may think your upset tummy is as a result of something you ate, whereas I may be aware of 6 others with the same symptoms which could indicate a norovirus outbreak or some problem with the canteen. I can’t assess that if all 7 people just say they are “ill”.

But you’re determined not to understand so I suppose decades of actual experience of the other side is null and void. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Nothing to o with not understanding the other side and your vast experience tbh.

You are in an hospital environment which is quite different than most people work environment tbh.
If you are part of the clinical team, I imagine that you also need to protect pxs so there is a H&S issue. The good side is that you’ll be working with HCW who would be able to spot a contagious disease (or at least I’d hope they would ).
And yes there is a lot of tension re people being off sick, for how long etc…

However, this does not mean you are entitled to know everything about the health of the people in our team. They are still allowed privacy and confidentiality.

So it might be your job to investigate if there is a norovirus outbreak from the canteen. But it’s not your job to be intrusive and invasive.
I’d even say that it’s exactly the sort of pressure that makes the job harder and will increase stress (and stress related illnesses).

The reality is that most people will tell ‘oh I have the runs’, or ‘I have a migraine’. It’s acute and well accepted as an illness.

Few people will tell you upfront they have a MH breakdown, issues with menopause etc… because these are not well accepted reasons for taking time off. People might be ashamed, worried you will say NO etc etc. By insisting you HAVE TO know will only add to the stress and will make you look nosy rather then interested iyswim.
So they are more likely to go down the GP route and hand you a Coke note over instead…..

See another situation.

I’m off work atm.
I’m am just damm tired, exhausted, fatigued.

Want would you have said if I had told you I’m tired? Come to work maybe?
How would you have evaluated my symptoms to say I ought to be at work? Imagine doing that as a non HCW and no medical training….

Why would I have to be judged on my ability to work or not by someone who has no medical training? Why should have to tell you all the symptoms I’m having when they will not mean a thing to you?

That’s why we have sick notes written by GPs…..

It's been a few years since I had the relevant training, but at that time it was made clear that your manager was not allowed to ask what the illness was - you just had to phone in and self certify. But on the form which HR had, there was a record of what the illness was. So it was confidential from your manager, but properly recorded on the HR paperwork.

I was led to believe that this was what employees were entitled to by law, not that it was unique to our company.

I have to input staff sickness on 3 different systems and for all of them I need a reason - ‘unwell’ is not a reason. We’re all grown ups, why is it a state secret whether it’s a UTI, a sickness bug, a migraine, etc?

@CristinaYangismySpiritAnimal

I have to input staff sickness on 3 different systems and for all of them I need a reason - ‘unwell’ is not a reason. We’re all grown ups, why is it a state secret whether it’s a UTI, a sickness bug, a migraine, etc?

With that argument, why is anything private? We are all grown ups? Why don't you tell me what underwear you prefer? Why don't you tell me what school your kids go to? Why won't you let me input into my five systems the itchy rash you have on your bum? What's the big deal? Remember privacy?

I hate phoning in sick I always worry that they think I’m skiving. I end up over sharing when I ring 🙈